Edwin P. Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 HC has not elaborated on random events recently, so here are my thoughts in this area: 1. Strictly Random Events linked to a date or condition --- ie Prior to Data XX/XX/XX --- ie When France Surrenders --- ie USA is Neutral --- ie No units in Country X 2. Random Events with 2 or 3 selectable Diplomatic responses --- ie IF Spain is Neutral Franco requests military assistance Response 1: Send Spain a minimal amount of military assistance (Spain gains 1 Corps, Cost 50MPP) Respinse 2: Send Spain a significant amount of milirary assistance. (Spain gains 1 Air Fleet, Cost 250MPP, Relations with Spain Improve by 5% to 15%) Response 3: Respectfully decline the Franco's request for assistance. (50% relations with Spain decline by 5% to 15%) 3. Naturally an option to turn these events on or off 4. Events can be linked to an AI player and the Intelligence level of the AI. --- Ie Random Event that only occurs for the AI at expert level. 5. Random event can only occur a specific numbers of times per game. --- Ie once per game, twice per game 6. Random event can be linked to the Losing Side --- IF Germany Takes Moscow THEN 5% Russia Gains Bonus HQ Unit. --- IF Russia Takes Warsaw THEN 5% Germany Gains 3 Corps. 7. Random Events have Chrome IF Germany Takes Moscow THEN 5% Russia Gains Bonus HQ Unit. News Flash: Russian troops rally to General [XXX] after fall of Moscow. IF France Surrenders THEN 5% Turkey Annexes Vichy Syria. News Flash: Turkish troops enter Syria to restore law and order after collapse of French government. IF No Units in Egypt Then 1% per turn Egypt becomes a neutral country with 1 Corps. News Flash: Egpytian Army Corps overthrows King Farouk. New Egyptian government declares neutrality in European war. Orders all foreigners to leave Egypt. [ October 28, 2004, 10:01 AM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
it's Les Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 I like the idea of random options merely because it makes the game unlikely to get to "perfect strategy" oriented. I would go so far as to say random events might be of more use to us than any sort of politics expansion. Generally speaking, I am happy with declare war or not declare war choices within the confines of this game. What always made Advanced Third Reich potentially unpredictable, was you never knew what option chit your opponent had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 HC has not elaborated on random events recently, so here are my thoughts Edwin, these are good thoughts. However, this is higher-order thinking whereas the event scripts are much much more basic. The scripts generally have a trigger condition, a probability, and a specific result - like a supply effect, a free unit, a war entry, etc. Very simple stuff. There's quite a few different types of scripts, and lots of things we can do with them individually. Don't expect to see multiple conditional results which have complex effects. But, here's the good news, you could have multiple scripts to do many of the things you suggest. Like the neutral Franco Spain idea. You could have an activation event for some random change in Spain's alignment, and - upon activation - a unit event for a free corps, a unit event for a free AF, or whatever. If the probabilities of these things are kept low, they would offer the occassional surprise we could appreciate without seeing every game we play take off on wild tangents. Almost like the 3R option chits that Les alluded to. All events have flags so you can turn them on/off for a campaign. And I expect difficulty levels for the AI and perhaps Intelligence may have an effect on event probabilities, but we'll have to see how it goes. The basic stuff needs to work first before any advanced ideas can be considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Bill, Can the scripts (events) be linked in a manner that one script will have the ability to activate another? If original fails the % probability activation the linked script will not happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Cater Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Most scripts have conditional parameters so loosely speaking there is a bit of linked logic possible between scripts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin P. Posted October 30, 2004 Author Share Posted October 30, 2004 Building on SeaMonkey's comments could one have a script that sets a Flag for Turkey to "ActiveNeutral" and have the following linked events. Example: When France Surrenders 5% (1 in 20 games) Turkey Becomes ActiveNeutral (FLAG) Popup: NEWS FLASH: Government of Turkey vows to reclaim the lands it lost at the end of World War I. (This is a hint to all players that Turkey is now an Active Neutral Nation) IF Turkey ActiveNeutral(FLAG) THEN When France Surrenders 50% (1 in 40 games) Turkey Annexes Vichy Syria. (Former part of Ottoman Empire) Popup: NEWSFLASH: The Government of Turkey announced that its army has entered Vichy Syria and reclaimed the lands it lost at the end of World War 1. IF Turkey ActiveNeutral(FLAG) THEN IF Turkey Activated 50% Turkey Gains HQ Unit IF Turkey Activated 50% Turkey Gains Army IF Turkey Activated 50% Turkey Gains Corps IF Turkey Activated 50% Turkey Gains Corps (Reflects build-up of Turkish Army while it is neutral) IF Turkey ActiveNeutral(Flag) THEN If Bulgaria Neutral 25% (1 in 80 games) Turkey Annexes Bulgaria (Former part of Ottoman Empire) AND Romania Joins Axis. Popup: NEWSFLASH: Turkish Troops have invaded Bulgaria. Romania, fearful of an invasion by Turkey, has signed a Mutual Defense Treaty with the Axis Alliance. IF Turkey ActiveNeutral(Flag) THEN WHEN Germany DOW Russia AND Iraq Neutral 50% (1 in 40 games) Turkey Annexes Iraq. (Former part of Ottoman Empire) IF Turkey ActiveNeutral (Flag) THEN 50% (1 in 40 games) on May 4, 1940 Popup: NEWSFLASH: Turkey purchases 100 Fighter planes from Japan after signing the Japan-Turkey Economic & Military Assistance Treaty. AND WHEN Turkey Activated it Gains 1 Air Fleet. [ October 30, 2004, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Cater Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 While the scripts are not quite as specific as the example you've got above, it is still difficult to say (at the moment) exactly what can and cannot be done with the scripts since they have yet to be fully tested. Also, keep in mind that even once they are fully tested, due to the very nature of scripts, there will probably be a lot of possibilities available that I haven't even thought of But I would reiterate what Pzgndr has stated, that there are quite a few different script types and there will be a lot of neat little things you can do with them (including some logical linking here and there), that ideally, should just (in the worst case scenario) give some of the variety and flavour you are looking for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Mr. Cater, You know that with the introduction of SC2 you will have given us the ultimate (TOAW like) strategic wargame. The editor will probably allow us to invent many campaigns and ultimately dry up your future market for this sort of game scale. The obvious now dangles for our contemplation "What Next". I can't imagine a talented designer/developer as yourself retiring, ....so where do your thoughts roam....what has your mind dallied with? Will you divulge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curry Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 sounds like the scripts will be interesting and just enough for me. Perhaps not enough for some but that is what the editor is for,but sounds like a great great improvement from sc 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin P. Posted November 1, 2004 Author Share Posted November 1, 2004 Hubert Cater, thanks for the comments. Greatly appreciated. Now, if only I could convince you to add 2 more major powers,which in most games would remain neutral unless activated; Spain and Turkey, and 2 more minor nations; for Egypt and Morocco. Why? For what if scenarios - What if Turkey or Spain or Italy could join the Axis - and you did not know which nation would join until France was about to fall (ie Germany could select their ally with a diplomatic chit, no chit = Italy Joins, 1 chit = Spain joins instead of Italy, 1 chit = Turkey joins instead of Italy). It would make for a most interesting game. What if, Egypt revolted against English influence (if England withdrew its forces from Egypt)and became a true neutral nation? What if Morrocco revolted against rule by Vichy France and became truely an idependent nation. Attacking neutral Morroco and/or Egypt might push Turkey towards the opposite side. Curry, I agree. SC2 will be a great improvement over SC1. [ November 01, 2004, 07:55 AM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wachtmeister Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 The ability to provide for custom scenarios using the editor could add a tremendous replayability potential for SC2. However, from a historical prospective, I can't imagine Turkey joining the Axis in 1940, with the Balkans not yet Axis, and Germany in no position to provide direct support. Regardng an Egyptian revolt, no way the UK would simply withdraw leaving the Suez lifeline to a "neutral" nation. British and French paratroopers landed to secure the Suez canal as late as 1956. This event might take the form of the appearance of a partisan corps in an ungarrisoned city or one of the Suez port squares. Then, the UK would have the option to put down the revolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin P. Posted November 1, 2004 Author Share Posted November 1, 2004 However, from a historical prospective, I can't imagine Turkey joining the Axis in 1940, with the Balkans not yet Axis, and Germany in no position to provide direct support.True, but Germany did try to convince Turkey (and Spain) to join the Axis. After France surrenders I can see Turkey joining the Axis, as Britain alone would be too weak to threaten Turkey. Some hothead Generals might believe that now is the time to strike, while their enemy is weakened and the UK is on the verge of, they believe, defeat. Remember the 1967 War, Jordan was mislead into attacking Isreal believing that the Egyptian Air Force and Army was victorious agianst the Israelis. In reality, the Israeli airforce had destroyed the Egyptian airforce earlier that morning and the Egytian generals were too afraid to tell their leaders the truth. The biggest problem that Turkey has is it; during that time period, was basically a 2nd world nation with a large uneducated and agraian population - think Russia 20 years earlier. Regardng an Egyptian revolt, no way the UK would simply withdraw leaving the Suez lifeline to a "neutral" nation....This event might take the form of the appearance of a partisan corps in an ungarrisoned city or one of the Suez port squares. Then, the UK would have the option to put down the revolt.Excellent idea, and of course Egypt needs to be a country for partisans to occur. My thinking was that the Allies might at some time decide to withdraw all units from Egypt and that there would be a small chance each turn (say 2% 1 in 50 turns) that this would trigger an Egytian revolt. Then as you said a partisan unit would appear and the Allies and the Axis powers would have the option to invade Egypt. [ November 01, 2004, 05:15 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wachtmeister Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Edwin: Interesting idea for sure. Another factor mitigating Turkey joining Axis in '40 would be an extreme reluctance to get in bed with its ancient enemy Russia, Germany's nominal ally at that time. Maybe its more a matter of timing, since it seems that Turkey would be more inclined to join the Axis if Barbarossa looks like a winner, say in late '41 or early 42. Perhaps something like Rostov falls and the Caucasis is cut off within 6 -12 months, or 2 out of 3 Soviet major cities, one of which must be Stalingrad, fall early. Spain, on the other hand, was much more likely to join Axis in '40, but the window of opportunity was short, about 4 months max. Historically, Hitler botched his "Spanish opportunity" with a little help from Admiral Canaris, who it is believed, privately advised Franco not to join the Axis. Some recent evidence has come to light indicating that Franco would probably have joined the Axis had Germany turned French Morroco over to Spain. This move would have made both Vichy and Italy very unhappy, but they or the UK could have done very little about it as long as a couple of Luftwaffe suported Wehrmacht divisions showed up to help make it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin P. Posted November 2, 2004 Author Share Posted November 2, 2004 Some recent evidence has come to light indicating that Franco would probably have joined the Axis had Germany turned French Morroco over to Spain. This move would have made both Vichy and Italy very unhappyWachmeister, excellent observation (and another reason for making Morocco a Minor Country controlled by Vichy France). I wonder if the diplomatic system in SC2 will allow one to recreate this? Example: Use a diplomatic chit to give French Morocco to Spain = Improved Relations with Spain & Reduced relations with Italy (and if Italian Relations drop low enough they return to Neutrality! or you can not move Italian units into Russia!). What about diplomatic related limitations on Italian units. For example: Italy Pro Axis +100% = No Limitations on Movement Italy Pro Axis + 70% = Can not move Italian Units into Russia Italy Pro Axis + 50% = Italian Units in Russia may only move/operate in a westerly direction. What actions would reduce Italian relations with Germany? Giving Vichy Morocco or Vichy Algeria or Vichy France or Egypt to Spain. The Allies spending diplomatic chits on Italy that are not countered by German diplomatic activity. Effect of Germany Giving Territory to Spain: Vichy Morocco = - 5% to -15% Vichy Algeria = -10% to -20% Vichy France = -10% to -20% Egypt = -10% to -20%. Allied Diplomatic Chit = -1% to -5%. [ November 02, 2004, 04:23 AM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin P. Posted November 3, 2004 Author Share Posted November 3, 2004 My Top Two Random Events: 1. US War Readiness Declines 30% + Early Siberian Transfer (Japan invades Hawaii and Alaska, Greater War in the Pacific) 2. No Siberian Transfer + US Production Doubled (No war in the Pacific) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Cater Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Originally posted by SeaMonkey: Mr. Cater, You know that with the introduction of SC2 you will have given us the ultimate (TOAW like) strategic wargame. The editor will probably allow us to invent many campaigns and ultimately dry up your future market for this sort of game scale. The obvious now dangles for our contemplation "What Next". I can't imagine a talented designer/developer as yourself retiring, ....so where do your thoughts roam....what has your mind dallied with? Will you divulge? Thanks for the kudos, it is greatly appreciated and I really do hope SC2 will live up to everyone's expectations. Hmmm.... retiring from game development? To be honest, this is something I have asked myself every once in a while (believe me game making does take a lot out of you and perhaps this is just exhausted Hubert talking here ), and while I do have some further game ideas, I often think about pursuing the *other* challenges that exist out there. No one knows for sure what the future will hold, but at least I try and keep every realistic option open just in case... until then game development suits me just fine Hubert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 HC, take a break...exhaustion sours the creative juices, we can wait. As far as those paths less travelled yet yearning for footsteps, for the talented the attraction is infinite, but you are only human and just 24 hours in a day limits your realm. Be calm, time will clarify the path, grasp what you have now, cherish it, develop others as the need arises, there is no hurry, the playground always cries out with many games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Cater Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 SeaMonkey Well said and thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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