Still on the amphib thing.......

[Guest Mike]

Here's some ideas for an amphibious tech:

0 - basically rowing ashore from longboats. Unit has to start move in the positoin it wants to unlad from, cannot move after unloading, high landing casualties. Max movement/range 1 from nearest friendly port. Mech units cannot use.

1 - civilian craft with minimal changes to make it a bit easier to offload infantry. Same as 0 but range = 2.

2 - modified craft able to discharge light vehicles onto beaches and provide some protection. Can land lvl 0 or 1 tank group or mechanised infantry. Non-motorised troops can move after landing. Max movement/range = 3

3 - Early generation specialised landing craft. Can land troops in the same turn as it moves. Can transport any units. Tank groups cannot move in same turn they land. Max movement/range = 4

4 - Advanced landing craft systems. Can unload same turn they move, all troops can move in turn unloaded. Max move/range = 5

5 - Advanced landing systems combined with massive over-the-beach logistical systems and ship-board accomodations for troops. Can directly assault enemy units from on water. Can treat landing areas as lvl 5 supply areas (33% chance this ability destroyed every turn in stormy weather).

Max move/range unlimted - can move full naval movement and assault any distance from a friendly port.

[Exel]

Good ideas, but I'd drop the number of tech lever to just three.

0-1: Unit has to start move in the positoin it wants to unlad from, cannot move after unloading, high landing casualties. Tanks cannot use. Range 2.

2-3: As they are now. Range 3.

4-5: Units can treat landing areas as lvl 5 supply areas (33% chance this ability destroyed every turn in stormy weather). Range 4.

[markpoll]

@Exel - Your level 4/5 would equate to what the allies did at Normandy, eg Mulberry harbour?

[R.J.]

Great ideas. I'd add a chance of damage for every storm tile passed through for lower tech levels.

[Exel]

Originally posted by markpoll:

@Exel - Your level 4/5 would equate to what the allies did at Normandy, eg Mulberry harbour?

Yes. I'm missing simulation of that capability in the game. As it is the Allies can not invade at Normandy because there is no harbor there and invasions don't bring inherent supply.

[markpoll]

What I'd also like to see is:

1. (already in game) defending ground units can't be assaulted from a sea hex, but

2. (partially new) amphib units can't land on an undefended hex without successfully assaulting it. What I mean by undefended is that there is no unit there, but some sort of assumed defence, especially if fortified. What I mean by assaulted is that there is a roll made to see if you land successfully and if so with what casualties. You could increase the odds by shore and air bombardment in preparation.

I realise that landing casualties sort of does this already, but it makes a landing a given (albeit with casualties) unless the defender puts units along the shore, which he's unlikely to be able to do (with the smallest unit being a corps). The practical effect I'd be after is that you couldn't land amphibiously outside air cover, without prior air and sea bombardment to reduce the defendersand a success roll based on that, even where there is no unit in the hex. Perhaps it should be limited to where the defender used an engineer to build a fort.

[LampCord]

I like this but it still means you have to get to level 5 before you can assault troops directly from the sea.

And this means Pacific island invasions will be problematic till late in the war. (Yes, I'm still holding out for a whole world scenario.)

It would be nice to have that ability at say tech level 3 with some combat penalty figured in.

[Guest Mike]

Yep - that's true, and possibly a solution.

In the Pacific you have the added problem that most defended islands wouldn't even be 1 complete area, so there's no place to put anythign except 1 defending unit, so where are you going to put your atackers?

[Exel]

Originally posted by LampCord:

I like this but it still means you have to get to level 5 before you can assault troops directly from the sea.

It would be nice to have that ability at say tech level 3 with some combat penalty figured in.

That's why I suggested that the amphib techs be limited to just 3 levels, not 5.

[bloodstar]

if there were retreats set up in game, you could simply create the idea there is a phantom unit on the coastal tile being assaulted. failure to retreat or eliminate that phantom unit would result in the assaulting units destruction (destroyed on the beaches)

[Gavrok]

On amphib I think the following solution would answer a lot of questions

allow amphibs to land as they currently do but make damage far more bloody and far more likely for every enemy ship/ aircraft in excess of allied air/ship within say a 5 square (intercept) range.

It should be bloody enough that any peroson would strive for dominance of air/ sea before risking any units

This means the Germans must neutralise the RN/ RAF before any sealion

G

[Guest Mike]

Originally posted by bloodstar:

if there were retreats set up in game, you could simply create the idea there is a phantom unit on the coastal tile being assaulted. failure to retreat or eliminate that phantom unit would result in the assaulting units destruction (destroyed on the beaches)

Yeah - lack of retreats is a bit of a disappointment in this game

[Exel]

Lack they may be, but we wont be seeing them with this engine no matter what. It's much more fruitful to concentrate on improvements we can actually hope to see in the game. At least until the development of SC3 is announced.