39-41_Spanish Civil War!

[JerseyJohn]

Greetings Bill,

Doing pretty well, thanks, considering how indifferent I've been healthwise for the first 58 years of my life. Hope you're feeling well too.

Your scholarship is, as always, an inspiration. I'm taking the liberty of copying your post to paste it at Buntaland in my Novel Notes Area. You've definitely provided some great routes to take.

The two books on the Spanish Civil War I've been using are David Mitchell's and Paul Preston's, with a couple of books on Franco, at the moment Franco A Concise Biography by Gabrielle Ashford Hodges.

I've been posting notes on my project at Buntaland as nearly all of it would be off-topic in these forums. It started out as one novel I wanted to write that would have traced several characters on both sides of the Holocaust from WWII thru the present day. From there it kept expanding till I realized I couldn't possibly fit it all into one novel. The first of them starts in 1935 and will have the original Polish and German characters. It's sequel will start in 1937 with several American characters, three of them young members of the German American Bund. Sequel isn't the right word, actually, because the novels -- maybe ten of them -- will be independent of each other but the characters will interweave, some scenes being in more than one story but seen from different character views.

The military part of things has to be as accurate as I can manage though I doubt there will be much in the way in depicted battles. But there will be a lot of behind the scenes talk concerning weapons and tactics and views on why the war is going one way or the other as time passes.

My main problem at the moment is putting together enough material on historical figures to turn them into good fictional characters. Having a hard time finding out about the Spanish composer Manuel De Falla, for example. He seems very interesting as a person but was very private in his personal life. Another is the Austrian author Stefan Zweig but I suspect there will turn out being much more available on him than De Falla. Others will be the pianist Ignace Paderewski and the British General Fuller, who I've always wanted to use as a fictional character.

And I hope that explains why I haven't been active at the website lately. SC2 and WaW look very interesting and I'd love to delve directly into the scenarios that have been made by yourself and others, all of them excellent based on excellent ideas. The problem is, if I do I won't be able to work on the novels, so that's the direction I've gone to.

Hope you'll drop in at Buntaland when you're in the mood. Anything you can add to my novel research would be very greatly appreciated.

-- Best of luck with the scenarios, as you know, I think your ideas are excellent. It's good to see neglected areas like the Polish Campaign and the Spanish Civil War represented. :cool:

[Bill101]

Sounds interesting John, you've obviously expanded your ideas a bit over the last few years.

I'm afraid that I know very little about any of the people you are trying to find out about. My recommendation (if google book search and the internet archive don't have anything useful between them) is to visit an academic/university library if there is one within travelling distance of where you are. They could contain some real gems - if there's one close enough of course!

Good luck with it.

[JerseyJohn]

Thank you, Bill.

Excellent idea. I think the two nearest would be Princeton and Rutgers.

A NYC library card would also be a good idea in order to visit the main Manhattan branch. I used to love that place but haven't been there in quite a while. If they've got an online hookup -- can't imagine they wouldn't -- that would also be very useful.

There are some fine online resources for Holocaust questions.

[Hyazinth von Strachwitz]

Hi there!

Yesterday I played the Spanish Scenario for the first time.. and I love it. I play they nationalist side at Expert/+0.

It is now Jan 37, and the tides turn strongly in favor of the Nationalists.. I produce 450 MPPS a turn, I bought all tanks and have invested 1000 MPP in research. I conquered the eastern half of the "Baskenland", and I massed all my air units there.. now I take city by city until the northern part is secured. In the southwest I established a link between the northern and the southwestern part of the nationalist territory.. that was quite easy. I lost my fortresses Alcazar and Oviedo, but that is more or less "wanted", right? I still hold the two fortresses in the south. My troops stand southwest of Madrid, and I expect Madrid to fall until March 37. In the Northeast my brave troops didn`t loose a single city, although two of them were surrounded by 10 units each. Once Madrid and then "Baskenland" is gone, I can shift all forces to Barcelona, which should be taken by mid 37. And the republican U-Boat is gone as well..

I really like that scenario, but I see two things that could be tweaked.. I think at the moment the game is too easy for the Nationalists

(1)

It is too easy to establish the link in the southwest.. maybe the AI should get a few bonus units there. Once the link is established, the human player can easily mass his troops where he needs them and then operate them to the next target.

(2)

Northeastern situation: when the games start, the AI launches a massive campaign in the northeast. I didn`t put any further units there until Dec 36, but I didn`t loose a single city. There is a division in one of the central cities (sorry, forgot the name), and it can reinforce to strength 10 although it is completely surrounded.. the whole republican army bled itself white just on that city just to get whiped to out as I shifted some troops over there who got free on other fronts.

A solution could be to exchange to division into a weaker unit..

Apart from that: Great Work!!

[Bill101]

I'm glad you like it and thanks very much for your thoughts!

Funnily enough everything you've described fits fairly well with what historically happened (apart from Oviedo and the Alcazar falling, they didn't fall but were both very heavily besieged).

The Nationalists actually linked up the south-west with the north in the middle of August 1936, whereas in the game they cannot do so quite as quickly unless the Republican garrisons vacate the three western cities. It does have some strategic importance, but in one of my games that was negated by my (admittedly human) opponent cutting off the eastern side of Nationalist Spain from the remainder.

I will have a look at the supply situation at Saragossa (I think that's the city you mentioned), but overall it looks as though the Republican AI just needs a bit of help to co-ordinate some better offensives. A bit like in the real war!

[Hyazinth von Strachwitz]

@ Bill:

Right, it`s Saragossa. I understand and appreciate what you say about the historical path in the Southwest.. so let`s leave it as it is.

I finished the game yesterday in the evening.. Madrid taken in Feb 37, the "Baskenland" cleared of Republican scum in April and Barcelona fell in June 37.. that is not really the historical path, isn`t it

I agree that the reason for this is AI behaviour. As the game ended in 06/37, the AI had 3000+ MPP left.. I think it simply didn´t research or buy advanced units. In my eyes the AI needs to do the following:

- Invest heavily in research, esp. industry, artillery, tanks and aviation tech, because there are lot of planes flying around, and been superior in the air makes it very expensive for the opponent to maintain his Airforce.

- buy divisons, Armor and HQs

- concentrate attacking forces on critical points like Saragossa; include any available divison there as well (10 militia units without stronger units are useless, a combination is fine)

- buy Artillery to secured strongholds (of course these need to be placed behind the frontlines where Inf cannot kill them easily)

But pls keep in mind: the scenario is brilliant already.. this is just to make something good even better!

[ December 04, 2007, 05:19 AM: Message edited by: Hyazinth von Strachwitz ]

[Philippe]

@ Jersey John

I'm not that familiar with the biographical details of de Falla, but I suspect that there are several tons of material written in Spanish.

You might want to try looking to see if Jose Luis Garcia has written anything about de Falla. I studied violin with him and his brother back in the sixties, and Jose Luis was quite the de Falla specialist. I have a very dim recollection of his saying something about de Falla having to keep his head down to survive Franco, but that was a long time ago, memories fade, and there were many phases to de Falla's life (including, I think, a stint in Argentina).

My mother studied piano very briefly with Paderewski. I have no biographical information about him to pass on, except to note that I discovered later in life that he was probably responsible for the horrible drawing-room liliting style that my mother used to play Chopin. I realized this when I heard a reconstructed recording of early Paderewski playing Chopin, and recognized the style immediately (shudder). I really, really hope that that stylistic abomination was a Paderewskian innovation, and not something picked up from the composer.

[JerseyJohn]

Appreciated Philippe :cool:

-- Hopefully it was the warping effect of either an old shellac disc or wax cylander. I get a similar reaction whenever I hear Fritz Kreisler playing one of his yacky-staccato pieces. I'm sure the man was a great violinist but there must have been better ways of showing it.

-- It would be interesting to hear how Chopin played his own pieces. I understand a French inventor actually captured the composer performing his Minute Waltz -- which on the period instrument he actually performed in something like 58 seconds. It was some sort of smoky bottle contraption that Chopin went along with to humor George Sand -- the inventor didn't know how to make it play, only record. :confused: The item was buried, along with a notebook, found in the 1990s and scanned by a laser device hooked up to a computer and a piano and the result was a performance of The Minute Waltz! If that's for real (I read this in a magazine article c.1993) it would easily be the first recording.

Thanks for the information, I will definitely pursue it and will let you know if I find anything.

From what I understand, de Falla was a very private person who didn't dabble in politics but he did put himself on the line for a friend in the late 1930s and immediately after moved to Argentina, where he lived quietly, working a grand projected that was never completed. He died in 1946 and there was a dispute between the two nations as to which had the right to bury him. His remains were ceded to Spain.

In my novel, the main character, the son of a lady concert pianist, meets de Falla in Spain as a young boy just before the Spanish Civil War. Events transpire and he meets de Falla again, years later in Argentina, as a teenager to make good on a promise of playing the Ritual Fire Dance for its composer. I picture it happening in an almost empty restaurant, de Falla listening queitly and nodding approvingly as the young musician, who cannot reveal his identity, nods in return and rushes away.

The only description I have of de Falla's last months is that he died suddenly in his sleep.

Thanks again and, fingers crossed.

[Philippe]

The friend de Falla put himself on the line for was Federico García Lorca. That should be grist for your mill in its own right.

And your cafe, of course, is probably on that street in Buenos Aires associated with the Tango.

[JerseyJohn]

Excellent suggestion, Philippe.

Spent the last few weeks on something set in medieval Europe, but have also been thinking about your posts. I like to research material of one period while working in another.

After reading a few articles on Federico García Lorca I see your point. As you suggest, he'd make an excellent character, along with de Falla, in what is now becoming a Spanish and Argentine subplot. I'd planned on using that country in a post WWII setting, but you've got me thinking now that it would be a good setting from the start, c.1935.

Still trying to get details of de Falla's last years in Argentina (not being fluent in Spanish it's difficult for me). I'm afraid of placing him somewhere and having it pointed out that he spent all those years as a recluse! -- He's actually described as having been reclusive, spending most of his time working on a never finished epic work, but as a description reclusive is a bit vague, leaving considerable room for interpretation.

-- But, if I don't find solid details soon, I'll assume he went to Buenos Aires on occasion and stopped in a cafe frequented by writers, musicians and artists.

There were several places like that in Lower Manhattan during the late 1960s. I used to go to some with friends, unfortunately they later changed, most of them either becoming tourist stops -- Jack Kerouac used to have coffee here! -- or just ordinary upscale eateries completely different from what they had once been. If I can't find good descriptions of an actual Buenos Aires cafe fitting the bill, a fictional replacement adapted from 60s Greenwich Village memories ought to work pretty well. :cool:

I've seen historical fitures mangled in fiction, and the grossly flawed images readily accepted. It would be good to avoid that, but if it's unavoidable, and the mangling is only slight, I think it's preferable to not representing them at all, or creating a completely fictional entity to stand in for a real person; better to pay homage to an honorable memory.

As always, very grateful for your insights.