My latest Axis game.

[TaoJah]

Here is the description on my latest game against an Allied AI (maxed difficulty settings).

- All my MPPs went into researching Advanced Infantry for the Germans, including the ones I got from selling the research points that you start with. I didn't buy a single extra unit.

- I took Poland as usual.

- I took Denmark with the help of my airforce and one corps' ambifious landing.

- Then instead of going to Benelux and France, I kept my troops in Poland and waited until I had Advanced Infantry level 3.

- Somewhere while waiting I parachuted into an UNDEFENDED Paris.

- When I had Advanced infantry 3, I upgraded my 5 armies near Russia.

- I DOW Russia on 5 may 1940.

- I DOW and took the Baltic States the next turn (the capital was undefended too).

- In Russia I took Minsk, Smolensk and Moscow, ignoring everything else.

- I moved my 3 German and 1 Italian airplanes to the coast and hit London with them, while preparing amfibious troops.

- I landed (totally ignoring the Royal Navy as usual), captured London and got a Major Victory on 17 november 1940.

Sorry but IMHO you should not be able to win a game like this on 17 november 1940, taking Paris, London and Moscow.

[Lars]

Well, you did something ahistorical, what did you expect?

Try it without IW 3.

[CPT Pete]

France surrendered with just one paratrooper in Paris and all its armies still intact? Was Benelux still neutral at this point?

[Guest Mike]

He didn't actually say that France surrendered - although it probably did somewhere along the way - just holding Paris is required - not French surrender.

Lars wrote:

Try it without IW 3.

Why should he? His strategy was to see what he could achieve with IW3 - good on him!

[Desert Dave]

Sorry but IMHO you should not be able to win a game like this on 17 november 1940, taking Paris, London and Moscow.

And so, TJ,

Pret' soon here you won't be able to do that.

Nor some other things neither.

Testing first patch NOW

And having immense FUN,

And what you have described is impossible

As Victory Condition, si?

[Lars]

Originally posted by Stalin's Organist:

He didn't actually say that France surrendered - although it probably did somewhere along the way - just holding Paris is required - not French surrender.

Lars wrote:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Try it without IW 3.

Why should he? His strategy was to see what he could achieve with IW3 - good on him! </font>

[Guest Mike]

He used the game mechanisms to equip all his troops with Sturmgewhere 43's in 1940........so in what way is it not the game's "fault"?

[Blashy]

The problem is the victory scripts, I mentioned this to Hubert a few weeks ago and it is corrected in the next patch.

[TaoJah]

Thanks for the remarks.

@ Lars : yes I did something a-historical. Of course I did ! What do you want me to do as Axis ? Loose on purpose, just to be historical ?

@ CPT Pete : the victory conditions don't say anything about France surrendering.

But yes, it surrendered, with all the armies intact and without me taking the Benelux. Russia never surrendered too, neither did the UK.

@ Bashy Yes, the victory condition should change, but that's not enough.

- France should ALWAYS defend their capital (that should be easy to code)

- You should not be able to move 5 armies onto the UK and land them without the Royal Navy having a chance to do anything about it (should be easy to code too, make it so that amfibious assault have to wait a turn until they can land)

- The USSR should defend Moscow better against early DOWs (that would be harder to code, I think).

Also : the system of research is too random IMHO. I can play the EXACT same game and have to wait a year to get Advanced Infantry 3. It has nothing to do with strategy, just pure luck : if I get Advanced Infantry 3 fast, I win fast. You might as well throw a dice and say that I won when I throw 15 or more.

IMHO it would be better if advacing in research always take -say- 50 points and you get one point for every chit invested in it per turn. That would take the randomness away and makes it impossible to get Advanced Infantry so fast.

[Guest Mike]

Originally posted by TaoJah:

@ Lars : yes I did something a-historical. Of course I did ! What do you want me to do as Axis ? Loose on purpose, just to be historical ?

.

I think Lars missed the bit in the advertising where we're encouraged to change history!!

[Lars]

Originally posted by TaoJah:

@ Lars : yes I did something a-historical. Of course I did ! What do you want me to do as Axis ? Loose on purpose, just to be historical ?

Worry about your flanks a little bit more?

Look, as Rolend already pointed out in another thread, you can just load up the starting forces and march on Moscow. The game A.I. isn't balanced for this (the victory patch will help) and I don't know how it could be, unless you want about ten armies to materialize out of thin air.

[markpoll]

I'm assuming that these sorts of things are addressed in the patch, but it really makes the point a few have tried to make but been called whiners.

I don't expect the AI to beat a competent human. I do expect it to do basic things right like:

1. defend its capital.

2. build and upgrade sensibly.

3. hit me on my flanks if I haven't covered them. You shouldn't be able to invade Russia in 1940 without intervention from the west and you shouldn't be able to ignore the RN when launching Sea Lion.

4. send key units on behind the lines on suicide raids.

[Rolend]

As for invading England in the early game being so easy check out the thread a few pages back called "Amphibious assault – MAJOR ISSUE" It is like 10+ pages long with some very good insights and there really is no need to rehash it at this time.

[TaoJah]

Originally posted by Rolend:

As for invading England in the early game being so easy check out the thread a few pages back called "Amphibious assault – MAJOR ISSUE" It is like 10+ pages long with some very good insights and there really is no need to rehash it at this time.

Well, I think that this problem really breaks the game, so I mention it. That's what this post is for : so that The Powers That Be see what's happening with AI-games.

[Fartknock3r]

Seems London and Moscow fall quickly, so axis get an early major victory. Is that being adressed in the patch?

[markpoll]

As for Russia and Sea Lion (apart from the RN issue) perhaps the solution relates to supply, ie modifying the "live off the land" supply rules where they cause balance problems. Maybe crippling supply restrictions (similar to Russian Winter) could be applied to the Axis in UK if you launch Sea Lion without sea control or in Russia up to some (game balancing) date. Not enough to make it impossible, but enough to make it a real challenge or even a big risk.

Personally, I think supply is a big problem with the game (as a country can do as much as it wants provided it can trace supply routes) and that supply should be limited, but that's obviously not going to change at this stage, so the key may be to use supply level restrictions to limit game unbalancing actions.

[TaoJah]

Originally posted by Fartknock3r:

Seems London and Moscow fall quickly, so axis get an early major victory. Is that being adressed in the patch?

I heard something about having to make USSR and UK surrender for a Major Victory, so you have to take Manchester, Caïro and whatever the names of those two Russian cities are where he moves his Capital too.

But since there are no patch notes, we don't know what's gonne happen, so we just keep on posting until the patch is here !

[Fartknock3r]

In my game versus AxisGeneral, he took The UK during a sealion. But he never conquered egypt- i held it. But later he took moscow and then instead of my capital relocating at the end of his turn it said Axis major victory. Even though i was on the verge of turning the war around.

[TaoJah]

Originally posted by Fartknock3r:

In my game versus AxisGeneral, he took The UK during a sealion. But he never conquered egypt- i held it. But later he took moscow and then instead of my capital relocating at the end of his turn it said Axis major victory. Even though i was on the verge of turning the war around.

Yes, currently the Major Victory Condition for Axis is : "take London, Paris and Moscow". Perhaps the patch will say "make Russia, UK and France surrender" (altough I don't think that you should have to take Caïro to get a mayor victory, but perhaps that's just me.