beginner's luck Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 I was wondering why artillery isn't really represented in either SC1 or SC2. I know we have rockets but those aren't really used like artillery(ie to expensive/not enough punch). Every battle during the war had artillery on one side or the other.It was used by many generals as a way to soften up the positions as everyone here knows. So why in two verisions of a WW2 strategy games not even a token unit to represent true artillery is used.Maybe I missed the post that stated the SC2 had artillery units so if someone know something please post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin P. Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 At lower level scenarios I have seen artillery units (really renamed rockets). At the level of the campaign game artillery units were attached to armies and corps and are included in those units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 In SC-1 each hex represents 50 miles in each direction. The largest naval guns would have had less than half that range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beginner's luck Posted January 25, 2006 Author Share Posted January 25, 2006 Ok,Ok you both make good points. But don't you feel that having a artillery attack to soften up an entrenched unit would be what happened in reality. I just don't think that that part of WW2 is represented quite right.It must be just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin P. Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 I view that as being included in any attack by an army or corps. All had artillery brigades attached to them. Anti-infantry tech could reflect improved accuracy and delivery of munitions from artillery. It certainly does not only reflect improved rifles and grenades. HOI does this by allowing you to attach various units (including artillery brigades) to a division. The SC method is simpler and achieves the same result. [ January 24, 2006, 08:55 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Dozer Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 what abou the gustav gun and you could have research in it to have the planned extended version to go 150km http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/80_cm_Gustav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodstar Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 why not simply have artillery levels give bonuses to attacking entrenched units. or reduce the strenth of an attacking or defending force by the difference in the levels. a L1 art research attacking against against an L2 defender, would find themselves effectively facing an L1 artillery barrage. (and of course each level of research would have to be bought, as per any other level of research. of course that would eliminate the rocket unit. but... heh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beginner's luck Posted January 26, 2006 Author Share Posted January 26, 2006 DOZER ,See NOW we are talking! Thats want I had in mind.Maybe not THAT big but atleast some to soften up his unit BEFORE I attacked with my inf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Originally posted by Mr.Dozer: what abou the gustav gun and you could have research in it to have the planned extended version to go 150km http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/80_cm_Gustav What was the range? I don't know of any, not even those two huge railroad guns (one of them never functional) that had a range even approaching the size of a game hex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beginner's luck Posted January 26, 2006 Author Share Posted January 26, 2006 JJ , this is for you,lol. Raining on Dozer and my parade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Dozer Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 It weighed nearly 1344 tons, and could fire a shell that weighed more than 7 tonnes at distances up to 37 km. As part of the planning for Operation Barbarossa in October 1939, Hitler initiated orders for the production of three 80-cm guns. Dora Dora was the second gun to be produced. It was deployed briefly against Stalingrad, were the gun arrived at its emplacement 15 km (9 miles) to the west of the city sometime in mid-August 1942. It was ready to fire on September 13th. However it was quickly withdrawn when Soviet encirclement threatened; when the Germans began their long retreat they took Dora with them. Dora was broken up before the end of the war, being discovered in the west by American troops some time after the discovery of Schwerer Gustav. Langer Gustav The Langer Gustav was a long cannon with 52 cm caliber and a 43-m barrel. It was intended to fire super-long-range rocket projectiles weighing 680 kg to a range of 190 km. This gave it the range to hit London. It was never completed after being damaged during construction by one of the many RAF bombing raids on Essen. P-1500 "Monster" Although it never left the early planning stages, there was a plan to build a 1500 ton tracked self-propelled Dora, the P-1500—armed with one 800 mm, two 150 mm guns and powered by 4 U-boat diesel engines. It was dubbed "Monster" by Albert Speer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Dozer Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 thanks beginner's luck for the complimant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Dave Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 As originally posted by bloodstar: ...why not simply have artillery levels give bonuses to attacking entrenched units. You DO have artillery in SC-2. As JJ has reminded, this is a large scale game (... each tile being ~ 60 miles) and having that particular unit on board would do little more than clutter up the simply elegant chess-board. Artillery is contained within the category of... Infantry Weapons. Which you can research to Level 3 (... of 5 possible) in the Grand Campaign default game. Some Nations begin with Level 1, others have to invest monies to equalize. Naturally, should you want increased fire-power, say, for a more modern scenario, you can use the Editor to change that limitation. "I/W" would include ALL other infantry support sorts of equipment, such as armored cars and mortars and that Bowie knife you might like to clench between yer teeth. Having played many games by now, trust me, if YOU have L-1 I/W and yer opponent does NOT, well, then, absolutely, you'll have a definite advantage, whether attacking garrisoned cities or a unit entrenched in the forest. However, (... and no doubt it WILL happen) you can always "paint" your own artillery piece, and substitute it in one another category, say, engineers or rockets. Not a problem. Like a selfless and doting Grand Mother (... and you the kid on the floor rolling out the combat results dice... asking for yet another! big bowl of ice cream) SC-2's Editor allows you to do damn near ANYTHING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Dozer Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 . [ January 26, 2006, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: Mr.Dozer ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beginner's luck Posted January 26, 2006 Author Share Posted January 26, 2006 Thanks Desert Dave, I didnt know there was a separate tech called I/W. I can live with that being the way artillary is "explained". BTW sorry DOZER you kinda lost me in your post there,. I spell bad but Had no idea what you were trying to say there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Dozer Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 lol yeah was a bit distracted in that one. Ok in sc there at that helps defence for tanks How about a tech for artilery that helps attack against troops. Or if it doesnt damage troops then how about it affects entrenchment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Dave, what is the staring artiellery level for Russia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Dozer Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 beginner's luck i would like to play you in sc1 if thats ok? you can kick my butt around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Dave Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Thanks Desert Dave, I didnt know there was a separate tech called I/W. I can live with that being the way artillary is "explained". BL, No problemo, Senor Luck. Another thing you can do now... let's say you REALLY want that category of "infantry weapons" to be more specific, IE, You prefer to imagine (... and ALL good games, then, now or in future, will allow plenty of room for... "romantic fantasies") that the category MERELY is for... Artillery Brigades, as attached to the Army or Corps, Well, all ya gotta do is go into the campaign's "localization file" and change the name to "artillery brigade." Cool, eh? :cool: Not Kafka's K: Dave, what is the staring artiellery level for Russia? Thing is, these numbers are liable to change depending on further testing, and balancing, so it's usually best not to give out specifics. Here's something that is great gaming, and VASTLY different than SC-1: Other than the basic starting OOB for Russia, you get to make Her exactly what you want! (... kinda like in that movie "Stepford Wives," LOLOLOL!) Meaning, what do you suppose is MOST important to research? And do you prefer more tanks or air fleets or HQ's or more Corps, or should you try to set up for initial delay of blitz, or fall further back and defend the cities? It's like building a sand castle out on Newport Beach ... how large, should you carve out a moat, and might there be a princess hailing the Knight Errant from one of the tallest towers? 'Course, you probably should consult your SoCal Moon Book, so's you can anticipate when might arrive.. the highest tide, LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Dozer Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 in tank groups is it like having half track unis. or should there be a unit that can move like tanks but strength of a army.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guinty1 Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 After late 1943 the soviets started deploying artilley at division (i.e. a full 12k men armed with just art),then at corps (up to 30k men) level.by the attack on berlin zhukov had more men in his artilley units than the USA had in western europe.There shouldnt be a seperate unit for artilley in the game but there should have been an upgrade to corps and armies to represent the awesome power of massed artilley at this level.For every soldier killed in WW2 by a rifle or a tank ....6 where killed by mortars and artillery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beginner's luck Posted January 28, 2006 Author Share Posted January 28, 2006 guinty1 , I agree. See thats why I thought that there should be an artillery unit since in WW2 it was used so much. But I really would just like the game no matter what units it has in it.lol Oh please just give it to me!!!! Please!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beginner's luck Posted January 28, 2006 Author Share Posted January 28, 2006 Hey Desert Dave, Just found this screenshot- it has artillery in it. Did they take them out for final game? artillery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 BL, Sorry I rained on it. Anyway, it was looking kind of cloudy even before I got off the subway. I suppose there's always rockets and similar but for us old school guys nothing can ever beat the pure happiness of pulling on a yanyard and for ever after being paritally deaf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Dave Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 Just found this screenshot- it has artillery in it. Did they take them out for final game? BL, That is a screen-shot of a smaller-scaled scenario concerning the battle in & around Kursk. I have used the same sprite, very sparingly, in the scenario that I created... 1941-42 North Afrika. The default '39 campaign does NOT have artillery in it, though, you could substitute an artillery piece, say, in the "rockets" category if you REALLY wanted it included. My feeling is this: WHATEVER it is that you LIKE, and is FUN to play, and adds mystery or romance or excitement to the game... well, go for it! Life is short, be a Happy Cat. Needn't be PERFECTLY aligned with every other item or pixel in the game, oh, nix nix. For instance, let's say you'd like to have your Behemoths of the Deep, those almost obsolete battleships, have a strike range of TWO. Then... just... do it. :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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