Gibraltar - the supply problem

[Bill101]

In SC1 the allies cannot reinforce their garrison in Gibraltar beyond strength 5 while Spain is neutral, because Gibraltar suffers from the 'surrounded unit effect'.

However, given that as long as the Royal Navy control the seas they can get supplies through from the west, it would be good to be able to reinforce the garrison up to strength 8.

I realise that this might not be easy to program in, but if possible it would be useful.

[JerseyJohn]

Agreed.

In games like Clash of Steel, Gibraltar was ridiculously strong, requiring the equivalent of millions of troops and several airfleets + paratroopers to capture it. In SC it tends to be the other extreme, usually falling too easily.

It's difficult to say how well it would have stood up to an attack during WWII.

There were a few Axis plans.

The first was to hit it from the land, assuming Spain joined the Axis after the fall of France. Hitler had his two large railway guns allotted for the task. Franco insisted the place be taken by Spanish infantry but was more than willing to use German bombers and artillery to neutralize the defenses. One German general after the war said, "Oh, it would have fallen. The affair would have been very bloody, but in the end we'd have taken the place."

When Spain failed to join the Axis, Italy was supposed to gain supremecy of the Western Mediteranean and pulverize The Rock with battleship bombardment. After Taranto that ceased to be a viable idea.

I don't recall seeing any specs on Gibraltar during WWII.

[Edwin P.]

I did some reasearch on it a while back, and the key problem that the Brits faced in holding it was the Spanish economic blockade of the Rock. All supplies had to be brought in. Furthermore, they evacuated the civilian population due to 1) security issues and 2) the fact that they had enough problems supplying their own troops.

As for an entire airfleet being stationed on Gibraltar, that was a near impossiblity as Gibraltar is not that large and about a 25% is a really big rock.

The real key to UK air superiority in the Western Med was its control of Algeria - taken in Operation Torch.

AI Hint - Operation Torch - Allied AI takes Algeria proceeds to roll up Italian forces in North Africa or it targets Sicily.

[JerseyJohn]

True, it was never a naval base on the level of Scapa Flow or Wilhelmshaven, it was only a means of controling one of the world's most strategic naval routes. Combined with Malta and Alexandria it gave the Royal Navy a lock on the Mediteranean.

But, as you point out, each of them had supply problems. Malta was the worst of the lot and at one point in the war almost fell from lack of proper supply -- a major supply effort, Operation Pedestal, had to be undertaken very late, August of 1942, for the single purpose of getting a supply convoy through to Malta!

Compared to that task, Gibraltar was relatively easy due to it's Atlantic approach. As you point out, a key problem was capacity; once supplied, how much could it actually hold?

It would be good if we had a way of blockading and starving places like Malta and Gibraltar into submission.

As you point out, Franco's government was in many ways an active Axis participant, most blatantly regarding Malta, which among other things was a center of Italian espionage and frogman activity. On the Allied part, a lot of disinformation was fed to the Axis via Spain, such as the famous episode of the British corpse that washed ashore with "secret" operations plans tucked away in his soggy uniform.

[SeaMonkey]

In testing "Op Sphinx"(Spanish intervention) I found it usually takes 3 determined Axis turns of attack to reduce "The Rock". That's usually a couple of armies and corps and at least one AF with HQ support. Now the UK can continually land fresh armies/corps if they decide to rule the sea vicinity and the Luftwaffe stays busy elsewhere, which requires the suitable MPP investment. Seems kind of historical to me, considering what happened at the other "Rock" (Corregidor) although a completely different set of circumstances, ....its all we got. If you want to hold an island bastion in a sea of turmoil, you have to pay the price.

[Edwin P.]

Tip: If you want to prevent the UK from landing reinforcements damage the port so that the existing garrison can leave. If they can't leave new units can land.

Also, in my experience, I was never able to hold Gibraltar against a determined assault as my PBEM opponents would always bring in so much air power that my surface warships could not be used for support.

[ October 13, 2004, 01:40 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[JerseyJohn]

SeaMonkey

Excellent, I agree completely.

In a modern context, with heavy artillery and air power, no fixed position is seen as impregnable, it was proven time and again and finally believed when the French lost Dien Bien Phu in 1954 despite having absolute air supremecy!

The tactic of pulling depleted troops out and replacing them with fresh ones was perfectly executed by the British during Rommel's first attempt to capture Tobruck. It would have been far more difficult at Gibraltar due to the greater distance fresh troops would have needed to transported from, i.e. bases in Britain.

I think it's safe to say Gibraltar would have held out a few weeks only against the kind of force you describe.

In my own game playing I've found that replacing the depleted garrison doesn't work because the new troops have no experience and aren't dug in. Reinforcing the depleted garrison entails similar problems and the unit can't be brought up to full stregnth in any case.

The closest WWII parellel we've got to an assault on Gibraltar, though Corregedor is an fine comparrison, would be the 1942 taking of Sevastopol by von Manstein in the Crimea. There's an excellent account of it in his book, Lost Victories.

Edwin,

True, in game play if the Brits want to try that tactic they'll need two or more aircraft carriers beyond the range of Axis airfleets; otherwise their own ships are headed for the bottom.

[Edwin P.]

JerseyJohn

Even so, its not worth the damage they take in intercepting.

[JerseyJohn]

Edwin,

I agree. Usually it's only advisable if the Axis is heavily involved elsewhere and can't send much air support.

Absolutely agree; and if you happen to lose a carrier it's really bad, so you don't want to waste them in something this risky.

[Edwin P.]

I know, I learned the hardway. As in poker, you have to know when to hold them, and when to fold them.

It will be interesting to see if HC improves the AI so that it will occassionaly, and unexpectedly, attempt to take Gibraltar and Egypt. Since he is looking at everything, just perhaps.

[Shaka of Carthage]

Gibralter in most wargames has always been a problem in how to handle it, since its strategic importance is way out of proportion to its troop density.

The biggest problem is that Gibralter doesn't have the space to hold a Corps worth of combat troops. I believe the garrison was no larger than an ad hoc brigade.

What Gibralter was, was an unsinkable Battleship. And the guns of this battleship, commanded the straights. And since it was "stable", it had an easier time targeting and hitting naval ships that came within its range.

The other problem, is the ability of a land side attack from Spain. In real life, that just wasn't something that was possible with any unit larger than a brigade. Restricted frontage, difficulty of water crossings, etc all put limitations on any one consider attacking Gibralter from Spain.

Hence the problem SC/SC2 has, since any attacks on Gibralter would be conducted by forces much smaller than the smallest unit we have represented.

There are alot of ways to "solve" the problem, but then you get back to the fact is the amount of work involved worth the result.

Which leads to what most designers have done, which is shoehorn Gibralter into the existing game mechanics.

[JerseyJohn]

Shaka

Perfect!

It's one of those fuzzy game areas, like the German invasion of Norway, that defies being incorporated in any normal game system.

To me the most important aspect is the number of men involved; it would be great to deal with it in a manner that doesn't involve sending three armies and an HQ to Spain along with airfleets. It would be pointless in real life but in the game there's no getting around it.

Unless there were a special rule, but most people aren't crazy about them. Two years ago I suggested one for Norway and was surprised first by how many people really disliked the idea and second at how valid their reasoning was. I'd imagine that from a programming aspect special rules aren't any joy either.

[JerseyJohn]

I've found this posting at another website, The Axis History Site (Yes Rambo, I remember, Claus Boobie and all! )

It gives a listing of the units Britain had in place there during WWII. Please keep in mind that this is from somebody's posting and may or may not be accurate:

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Gibraltar defenses 1/1941 View next topic

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asiaticus

Member

Joined: 03 Mar 2004

Posts: 136

Location: Lake Elsinore CA USA

Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 3:18 am

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What were the Gibraltar defenses like in Jan. 1941. I know what the garrison was:

2nd The Kings Regiment

2nd Somerset Light Infantry

4th Devonshire

4th Black Watch

3rd Heavy Regiment, Royal Artillery (previously "Gibraltar Coast Defenses" and later redesignated 3rd Coast Regiment) controlled 4th, 26th, and 27th Batteries with 8 x 9.2-inch guns, 7 x 6-inch guns, and 6 x twin 6-pounders.

AA batteries, the 9th and 19th, defended Gibraltar from air attack with 4 x 3-inch, 4 x 3.7-inch, and 2 x 40mm guns. HQ 10th AA Regiment was later formed to control the two batteries.

The 82nd Heavy AA Regiment with three batteries (156th, 193rd, and 256th) including 16 3.7-inch guns, 8 x 40mm Bofors guns, and the first radar sets.

3rd Searchlight Battery also arrived in July

I want to know what they were defending. Strongpoints, minefields, obstacles, bunkers etc. Is there a map of same?

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[Shaka of Carthage]

Sometime back, I ran across a book that covered the German potential plans for an invasion of Gibralter. If you look hard enough, you can probably find something about it on the Internet.

From what I remember, there were roughly three (3) German regiments and possibly a fourth one, which was a Airborne regiment. Airborne unit was suppossed to hold a beachead, so the follow on regiments could land. Unlike Crete, there wasn't an airfield large enough for gliders and transports to support the follow on regiments. So you had a amphib landing, being conducted by Paratroopers, not Marines.

It got shot down, mainly because due to the inaccurracy of the landings, Germany wasn't willing to accept the losses it would have sufferred from Paratroopers being drowned.

I used to wonder why they didn't use thier Brandenberg(?) or whatever they called the German Special Forces. Those guys were more like Rangers, but I guess they really needed Seals.

One note about British forces... you have to be careful when you read about British "Regiments". Sometimes the are nothing more than a battalion.

[JerseyJohn]

Yes, and while I was posting that list I wondered if the Blackwatch was a division. I don't think it is, in which case that section is probably a battalion of the Black watch and possibly the entire group is more like a brigade, as you originally suggested.

Interesting comments about that German plan. Sure, after Crete Hitler would have been disinclined to something taking comparable casualties. Also, Gibraltar being assaulted by unassisted paratroopers would have made Crete seem like a country outing.

I think the only real chance against the place was by land. Germany never did get both of their huge rairway guns in operation but one was used against Sevastopol with devastating effect; they were originally intended for use against the Maginot Line.

In 1945 I believe Corregedor was recaptured in an operation that consisted mainly of paratroopers; probably that would have been similar to the German plan for Gibraltar you've cited.

Thanks for mentioning the book. If I manage to find it I'll let you know. This is a much more interesting topic than I at first thought it would be.

[Bill101]

The Black Watch were the 42nd (Highlander) regiment.

Shaka's right, in a British order of battle always take a British regiment to equal one battalion unless it says otherwise. Standard practice before the 20th century was to have one battalion on foreign service while a second battalion of the regiment would stay at home, inducting and training new recruits.

Things changed a lot in the 20th century, especially during the first world war when some British regiments had so many battalions that if fielded together they could have formed a division, but that wasn't standard practice.

[H.J. von Arnim]

@JJ:

The operation for the capture of Gibraltar was called "Unternehmen Felix" (Operation Felix).

Maybe this is helpful for further research

Cheers !

[JerseyJohn]

Bill & von Arnim,

Thank you, gentlemen, those are useful pieces of information.

I still haven't got a clear picture of what constituted British battalions and divisions, you're right about the confusion caused by those endless subdivisions, Bill.

Von Arnim, looking forward to finding out about Operation Felix! I've heard the name before but thought it was something else (Malta plan).

-- Should find a few things out during the day.

[JerseyJohn]

Thanks to von Arnim's assistance I've begun finding information from web searches of Operation Felix.

As always, it's difficult to verify whether or not these things are authentic.

===

Operation Felix

Directive No.18

The Führer and Supreme Commander

of the Armed Forces

WFSt/Abt. L(I) No. 33 356/40 g. K. Chefs

Top Secret Führer Headquarters

12 November 1940

10 copies

By officer only

DIRECTIVE No. 18

The preparatory measures of the High Commands which are being prepared for the conduct of the war in the near future are to be in accordance with the following guiding principles:

1. Relations with France

The aim of my policy toward France is to cooperate with this country in the most effective way for the future prosecution of the war against England. For the time being France will have the role of a "nonbelligerent power" which will have to tolerate German military measures on her territory, in the African colonies especially, and to give support, as far as possible, even by using her own means of defense. The most pressing task of the French is the defensive and offensive protection of their African possessions (West and Equatorial Africa) against England and the de Gaulle movement. From this task the participation of France in the war against England can develop in full force.

Except for the current work of the Armistice Commission, the discussions with France which tie in with my meeting with Marshal Petain will initially be conducted exclusively by the Foreign Ministry in cooperation with the High Command of the Wehrmacht.

More detailed directives will follow after the conclusion of these discussions.

2. Spain and Portugal

Political measures to induce the prompt entry of Spain into the war have been initiated. The aim of German intervention in the Iberian Peninsula (code name Felix) will be to drive the English out of the Western Mediterranean.

For this purpose:

a) Gibraltar should be taken and the Straits closed;

6) The English should be prevented from gaining a foothold at another point of the Iberian Peninsula or of the Atlantic islands.

For the preparation and execution of the undertaking the following is intended:

Phase I:

a) Reconnaissance parties (officers in civilian clothes) will conclude the requisite preparations for the operation against Gibraltar and for the taking over of airfields. As regards camouflage and cooperation with the Spaniards they are bound by the security measures of the Chief of the Foreign Intelligence Department.

Special units of the Foreign Intelligence Department in disguised cooperation with the Spaniards are to take over the protection of the Gibraltar area against English attempts to extend the outpost area or prematurely to discover and disturb the preparations.

c) The units designated for the action will assemble in readiness far back of the Franco-Spanish border and without premature explanation being given to the troops. A. preliminary alert for beginning the operation will be issued 3 weeks before the troops cross the Franco-Spanish border (but only after conclusion of the preparations regarding the Atlantic islands).

In view of the limited capacity of the Spanish railroads the Army will mainly designate motorized units for the operation so that the railways remain available for supply.

Phase II:

a) Directed by observation near Algeciras, Luftwaffe units at a favorable moment will conduct an aerial attack from French soil against the units of the English fleet lying in the harbor of Gibraltar and after the attack they will land on Spanish airports.

Shortly thereafter the units designated for commitment in Spain will cross the Franco-Spanish border by land or by air.

Phase III:

a) The attack for the seizure of Gibraltar is to be by German troops.

Troops are to be assembled to march into Portugal in case the English should gain a foothold there. The units designated for this will march into Spain immediately after the forces designated for Gibraltar.

Phase IV:

Support of the Spaniards in closing the Strait after seizure of the Rock, if necessary, from the Spanish-Moroccan side as well.

The following will apply regarding the strength of the units to be committed for Operation Felix:

Army:

The units designated for Gibraltar must be strong enough to take the Rock even without Spanish help. Along with this a smaller group must be available to support the Spaniards in the unlikely event of an English attempt at a landing on another part of the coast.

For the possible march into Portugal mobile units are mainly to be designated.

Luftwaffe:

For the aerial attack on the harbor of Gibraltar forces are to be designated which will guarantee abundant success.

For the subsequent operations against naval objectives and for support of the attack on tlie Rock mainly dive bomber units are to be transferred to Spain.

Sufficient anti-aircraft artillery is to be allocated to the army units including its use against ground targets.

Navy:

U-boats are to be provided for combating the English Gibraltar squadron, and particularly in its evacuation of the harbor which is to be expected after the aerial attack.

For support of the Spaniards in closing the Strait the transfer of individual coastal batteries is to be prepared in cooperation with the Army.

Italian participation is not envisaged.

The Atlantic islands (particularly the Canaries and the Cape Verde Islands) will, as a result of the Gibraltar operation, gain increased importance for tho English conduct of the war at sea as well as for our own naval operations. The Commanders in Chief of the Navy and of the Luftwaffe are to study how the Spanish defense of the Canaries can be supported and how the Cape Verde Islands can be occupied.

I likewise request examination of the question of occupation of Madeira and of the Azores as well as of the question of the advantages and disadvantages which would ensue for the naval and for the aerial conduct of the war.

The results of this examination are to be presented to me as soon as possible.

3. Italian offensive against Egypt

The employment of German forces will be considered ,if at all,only after the Italians have reached Mersa Matruh.But even then the use of German air units will only be considered if the Italians will provide the nesscassry air basses.

The preparations of the Armed Services for operations in this theatre or in any other North Africa theatre of war will be made on the following basis:

Army:

One armored division (composition as already laid down) will stand by for service in North Africa.

Navy:

German ships in Italian ports which are suitable as troop ships will be coverted to carry the largest possible forces either to Libya or to North-West Africa.

Air Force:

Plans will be made for attacks on Alexandria and on the Suez Canal to close it to English warships

4.The Balkans

Commander-in-Chief Army will be prepared, if necessary to occupy from Bulgaria the Greek Mainland north of the Aegean Sea.This will enable the German Air Force to attack targets in the Eastern Mediterranean and in particular those English air bases which threaten the Rumanian oil fields.

In Order to be capable of fulfilling all tasks and to keep Turkey in check, planning and march tables will assume the employment of an Army Group in a strength of about ten divisions. The use of the railway line running through Yugoslavia will not be assumed in planning the movement, the German Military mission in Rumania will be shortly reinforced to an extant about which I require advice.

In conjunction with the proposed land operations, Commander-in-Chief Air Force will prepare to post air force units to the southeastern Balkans and to set up an Air Force signal service on the southern frontier of Bulgaria.

The German air force mission in Rumania will be reinforced to the extant proposed by me.

Requests by Bulgaria for equipment for its army (weapons & ammunition) will be met sympathetically.

5. Russia

Political discussi9ons for the purpose of clafifying Russia's attitud in the immediate future have already begun. Regardless of the outcome of these conversations all preparations for the East for which verbal orders have already been given will be continued.

Further directives will follow on this subject as soon as the basic operational plan of the Army has been submitted to me and approved.

6. Landing in England

Since changes in the general situation may make it possible or necessary to revert to 'Undertaking Sealion' in the spring of 1941, the three brats of the Armed Forces will make every effort to improve in every way the conditions for such an operation.

7. Reports

I await reports from Commander-in-Chief on the operations laid down in this directive. I will then issue orders on the manner of execution and the timing of individual operations.

In the interests of security, special measures are to be taken to limit the number of those working on these plans. This applies particularly to the undertaking in Spain and to the plans relating to the Atlantic Islands.

(signed)

Adolf Hilter

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

www.adolfhitler.ws

[JerseyJohn]

My main problem with the above document is it's dated 12 November 1940 and speaks of an arrangement with Spain for the taking of Gibraltar. Hitler and Franco had their one and only meeting in Hitler's private train, Amerika on 23 October 1940 and it was a total bust. It's entirely possible, of course, that he still expected Spain to join the Axis with the arrangements worked out by subordinates.

Franco kept stalling on giving a definite answer, so it is entirely possible that that would have been the case.

The two dictators in their only meeting onboard Amerika at the French-Spanish border, Oct 23, 1940. After the meeting Hitler said he would rather have three teeth extracted without anesthesia than meet again with Franco.

[JerseyJohn]

"Dora," one of the two 80cm railroad guns Hitler allocated for Operation Felix; the second was never actually completed but Dora was used in the Sevastopol operation and elsewhere.

< Article on the 80cm railroad guns >

[Edwin P.]

I read this once, but will have to confirm, the Rock (inside the actual geological structure) contains submarine pens. These pens were used not only during WWII also during the cold war. submarines could enter and leave the rock without being visually spotted.

[Edwin P.]

History

Of strategic importance, the fort was the access road to the various countries located on the Mediterranean and Adriatic shores. There is little chance to find a fort that was attacked by three countries at the same time in the same period of time, and yet, at the onset of World War II, the fortress of Gibraltar was, indeed, attacked by the forces of the AXIS, the Italians and the Spanish.

When Germany declared war, Gibraltar was under british protectorate, a crown colony. I believe the fort of quatrain II-39 and that of I-75 are one and the same, the fort of Gibraltar. Strategic importance of Gibraltar:

The British Fleet in Gibraltar

(P.123) VICHY RETALIATES AND BOMBARDS GIBRALTAR (24 septembre 1940)

(P.269) In november 1942, the allies had no other piece of land in occidental Europe, the Medirerranean and west of Malta but the fortress of Gibraltar. Without Gibraltar, the essential aerial protection could not have played its role on the battlefields of North Africa.

(Translation - Memorial de la Seconde Guerre Mondiale, Tome 2, Sélection du Reader's Digest 1965 )

During World War II, Hitler attached much importance to Gibraltar. Thus, he tried to sign a treaty with Franco so he could use the detroit, but this was eventually refused. However, Franco took advantage of the conflict, along with France (of Vichy, the Germans) and Italy, to attack the fortress that was nevertheless able to shoot three of his planes:

(P.123) VICHY RETALIATES AND BOMBS GIBRALTAR September 24, 1940. For the first time since the beginning of hostilities, the rock of Gibraltar has been hit by the bombs of a former ally. After the british operation on Dakar, a counter-attack by the France of Vichy, (during the German occupation) (Germains) was inevitable. The raid of a hundred bombers should have destroyed the port, and yet, it would seem that several french pilots deliberately unloaded their load in the sea, and most of the bombs that hit the ground had been sabotaged and did not explode... However, another problem worries them: Hitler is about to try to convince Spain to join the Axis while Roosevelt tries to convince Franco to remain neuter. The three planes (Espagnols) brought down last night augurs ill for what is to follow: will Madrid join Berlin? The detroit remains a strategic point for the allies, an essential base for the destroyers...

There were repeated attacks to conquer the fort of Gibraltar, but in vain: the fort was impregnable:

(P.132) ...October 30, 1940. An amphibious attack against Gibraltar ends in failure (Le fort gagné tiendra classe marine)for the italians . (Gaulois)

(Translation - Chronique de la Seconde Guerre Mondiale, Jacques Legrand SA)

Thus, attacked by three countries, the British managed to keep the fortress. This strategic advantage facilitated the transport of allied troops by sea to Sicily, Italy and other countries during the war.

[JerseyJohn]

Interesting. It's hard to know exactly what the Brits build in that thing. I suspect if they ever return it to Spain they'll end up towing the Rock itself to the UK, somehow.

Strangely enough, during WWII German and Italian subs had no problem at all moving in and out of the Western Med to and from the Atlantic. It wasn't a joyride, but they were nearly always successful. Which seems strange considering the Brits has sonar (astic?) from the start of the war.

[JerseyJohn]

Edwin

I don't understand that history post you put up and know nothing of any of the three attacking Gibraltar. Italian frog men operated out of a half sunk freighter under the protection of the Spanish, but why would Spain have attacked it with three obscolete aircraft? Vichy made a spite attack on it? Again, I don't understand the point nor do I understand the German angle of this. No one could have expected to take the place with such weak efforts.

Is the source for these things a reliable one?