Help with operation Barbarosa!

[tunatamaker]

Hello Guys,

I am new to the game...very new. In my history class we are running a simulation of World War II in which people are divided into countries. I am Germany and the simulation starts with Operation Barbarossa! What am i supposed to do? Any guides or strategies? I dont want to invade russia to start with, that will be my demise!

[Canuck_TAR]

Hit them hard and fast. Speed and violence.

What you want to do is encircle the Russian armies to prevent there escape and they they can be destroyed easier.

Gain ground while the weather is good........winter and mud are also you enemy.

[tunatamaker]

So I should just start attacking the russian army in front of me? should I try to bring in troops by sea around the back?

[JerseyJohn]

If it's a history class, the sea is not an option, Germany didn't have much of an amphib ability -- they pretty much sneaked into Norway with troops hidden in freighters who emerged from the holds and walked off onto the docks; nothing comparable to what the Allies and Japanese were capable of. Also, they couldn't have transported enough troops by sea to accomplish anything by Eastern Front standards, so that's out.

I've always felt that Hitler's first big mistake in Barbarossa was in not assigning the proper priorities. The country freezes from North to South, of course, but in Russia it's more pronounced than most other places, so the major cities needed to be taken that way, Leningrad ->Moscow->Kiev before the winter. Sounds incredible, but with the progress they made it might well have been possible. Instead, Hitler pulled most of AGNorth away exactly when they were closing in on Leningrad. Similarly, he pulled most of Army Group Center away exactly as it was closing in on Moscow. The result was huge numbers of prisoners around Kiev, but with his northern troops out in the lurch, freezing through the winter. Worse, the Soviets quickly reinforced Leningrad and, through a ruthless defence, were able to hold out indefinitely.

Capturing Leningrad would have eleminated the need for a large northern army group, and linked up with Finland. Capturing Moscow would have cut the Soviet rail hub and also demoralized their cause. Kiev, Odessa, and the other southern cities were important objectives because, as they fell it meant the USSR was losing vital resources in the Ukraine and huge wheat growing areas.

So, a good first years objective would have been Leningrad, Moscow and Rostov on the Don, which Germany came close to having historically.

Nothing possible during the Russian Winter, but in the spring of the 2nd year Germany would have to take the Caucasus oil fields and have a solid line along the Volga. Again, they almost did this, but fell short, and the result was Stalingrad.

That's my 2 cents. Hope it helps a bit.

[tunatamaker]

Hello,

Okay I will try for Leningrad. However, it is not totally historically accurate because USSR is another group in the class, and they can do anything they want pretty much. But do you have any strategies to get Leningrad?

[JerseyJohn]

Pretty straightforward, historically it was infantry moving along the coast and a panzer group (I think it was Hoth?) racing NE farther inland, cutting rail lines between the interia and the Baltic ports. The idea being they would reach the final rail line connecting Leningrad to Moscow, and hold the position as the infantry caught up after slogging it's way through Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania.

Historically that northern thrust moved very quickly and, most accounts say the Germans could have grabbed Leningrad weakly defended but for Hitler's tactical meddling.

The Army Group Commanders were:

von Leeb - North

von Bock - Center

von Rundstedt - South

Army Group South started out understrength due to the Crete operation, and it snagged, which caused the later shifts of armor from North to Center, and from Center to South.

[tunatamaker]

okay. I dont understand what you fully just said but try my best.

[JerseyJohn]

Good Luck.

[tunatamaker]

Thanks a lot. If anybody else has any tips let me know. by the way, do you know what things I should start developing? LIke tanks or anything?

[ChrisND]

Winter Equipment!

[JerseyJohn]

Oh, I knew I forgot something! :eek:

What was it they told the quartermaster as Autumn came around? Something like "Don't make any further suggestions of this nature." The high command was actually ticked off at the guy!

[tunatamaker]

What qualifies as winter equipment? Like where do i go to get winter equipment.

[JerseyJohn]

Interesting question. It wasn't just the clothes that were too light, German equipment also became unservicable because the petrol products froze -- which it wouldn't have done in continental Europe.

The German army, that first winter, lacked enough heavy clothing for all the 3,000,000 or so troops they had in the USSR, and also lacked the proper lubricants for their vehicles and artillery pieces. Additionally, many units became cut off from their supply base due to the above conditions, and wound up surrendering to the Soviets in huge numbers.

-- The Soviets, for their part, brought their Siberian reserves from the Asian frontier and launched them in a counterattack west of Moscow that the Germans were totally unprepared to defend against. -- Add to that Hitler's orders to not retreat an inch, and the result was devastating losses as 1941 turned into 1942.

[tunatamaker]

So what should I do in the Game to prevent anything like that occurring? I need to win this simulation so I get an A in the class

[Bromley]

You can't do anything in game. In fact, it's not directly modelled, so there's no problem (well, there's a "Russian Winter" event winter of 41/42? onwards, but it's no big deal).

1. The first thing to do is to start a Multiplayer Hotseat game of the scenario in question (Fall Barbarossa?). Make sure that the Fog of War option is off. That way you can see the initial deployment of the enemy.

2. The second is make sure that all your HQs are on Auto-Assist. Then make sure that your best units are attached (i.e. detach the corps in Warsaw and attach the 17th to Boch). Make sure you understand the basics of supply (i.e. HQs should always be within range of a city - don't forget to count the city square itself as well).

3. There are other possible starts, but KISS says just make sure you destroy the units nearest you. Use your air against his tanks before you attack them with your panzers (as his tanks are higher tech than yours, so you want to reduce their readiness).

4. As you're new to the game, I'd personally advise against attacking Leningrad. It can be a tough target - just take a corps up that way to keep an eye on it. Given the fortifications around Moscow, you might want to try to overrun those before he gets the Siberian transfer event (see below).

5. Siberians will trigger sometime after you pass the Smolensk-Kharkov line (or by 1942). If he operates them to the frontline attack and kill them whilst they've got low readiness. If not, just make sure you're not over-extended (i.e. don't be besieging Stalingrad with Voronezh still held by him, as he'll sweep down and cut you off.

6. I doubt the teacher will grade purely on who wins. Just play a good game where you set objectives and, assuming you lose, be able to explain why you didn't make them and you'll do fine. Wish I'd had lessons like yours .

EDIT: I forgot, leave a corps in every city that you take. There are partisan scripts that you can guard against, but for a beginner it's best to ensure that you don't lose any cities by garrisoning them.

[ March 08, 2007, 01:32 PM: Message edited by: Bromley ]

[tunatamaker]

okay. since this a class effort, I think that I am gonna try to fool russia into thinking that I am attacking Moscow, but attack leningrad. is that a good strategy?

[ChrisND]

This is for a history class Bromley, not SC 2 ( I think?

Couple of other suggestions:

- Develop vehicles, planes, and equipment that work well in arctic conditions. Many of the problems stemmed from liquids freezing, as JJ pointed out. New synthetic compounds help alleviate this.

- Also, I would get Albert Speer to start developing 75mm cannons for the tanks and anti-tank weapons ASAP. These are needed to defeat the heavier Soviet tanks.

- As far as occupation of captured territory goes, it may go a LONG way to NOT hand over the territory to the civilian administration. They turned many potential allies, or at least non-combatants, into partisans and enemies with their heavy-handed attempts at political indoctrination and racial supremecy bullcrap.

[tunatamaker]

okay thanks a lot. Will definately do that. My plan is still to attack Leningrad over Moscow. should I worry about the Brits or USA at all yet?? Because I am worried that they might come up Italy.

[Kuniworth]

Tunatamaker!

Can you tell us a bit more how this wargame/simulation is constructed?

[tunatamaker]

Well basically. there are three people who rule the USA, three Germany, Three Russia, Two italy, 3 Britain and i think that is it. I am part of Germany, and the simulation starts with Operation Barbarossa. Basically the game will be used for the battle simulation, and in class we will do the diplomatic initiatives like press releases and allies. we even have spies and double agents! So it is very tricky. I plan on plating fake plans around the school. we will continue the simulation till the end.

[n0kn0k]

Interesting

[ChrisND]

What history class is this? I wanna sign up!

[JerseyJohn]

Originally posted by tunatamaker:

So what should I do in the Game to prevent anything like that occurring? I need to win this simulation so I get an A in the class

I wonder what grade Hitler would have gotten?

Originally posted by Normal Dude:

What history class is this? I wanna sign up!

Me too!

Sounds extremely interesting, and a great concept, though it's hard to tell how reliable the model is without actually seeing it in action.

Hopefully Mr T. will fill us in on how it goes right up to the end. :cool:

[Retributar]

tunatamaker

Invest heavily in Anti-Tank, Improved Armour, Infantry Weapons Tech & Motorization Capability,...in order to have any chance of defeating the Russian's at all!.

Failure to do so,...will lead to your inevitable Demise!.

[Guest Mike]

I've always found motorisation a bit over-rated and Advanced aircraft more useful.....

Oh and production tech, and industrial tech...