Any ideas about this situation?

[vveedd]

Originally posted by Desert Dave:

vveedd,

Just a kind of friendly suggestion.

QUIT!

Running over to that other board

And shouting all over the place!

About how terrible this or that feature

Is... with SC-2.

How THEY should avoid making

The same sort of mistakes, and etc,

See what I mean?

You CAN make your points,

Here, there and anywhere

WITHOUT constantly mentioning

Or comparing with SC-2, true?

Personally,

I get a bit disgusted by that,

Since I have put damn near 5 years

Of my - one and only life

Into helping make THIS game

The best it can be

(... small contributions,

and certainly no more than MANY others

here have also done over the years).

Hubert has staked his own life,

His very livelihood,

On making, and improving this game,

When,

I have no doubt,

He could be making a LOT more $$$

Using his considerable talent and skills

In some other fashion.

And so,

Here's the thing.

Sooner than later folks are gonna get the idea

That you are being, ummm, two-faced

And even... traitorous,

Since very many - not merely me,

Have a REAL "rooting interest"

In seeing Hubert succeed, and,

Do well enough that he would choose

To CONTINUE improving this great game.

Know what I mean?

Thanks for advice Desert Dave but no, I will not quit. I love this game like you and participating in making from beginning of SC1. I will continue make suggestions until Hubert says “I am done with this game”. Even then I will try to give some suggestions in case that Hubert decides to start make Strategic Command 3. All my posts were and are with one goal – to make this game better and better. I will not accept statement “This game is good as it can be” because this is not true. We could have said that when SC2 was in 1.0 version but we haven't. Because of that now we have SC2 v.1.6 which is much better game than v.1.0. All my suggestions were with good reason and with very well arguments because I have very good world history knowledge and I am playing strategy games all my life (and this is long time, believe me ).

As for comparing SC2 with other games (or should I say game?) why not? I know about what game you are talking about and I am only trying with REAL examples to help this guys that they avoid some mistakes from SC2 at start. Comparing this game with SC2 is logical choice because it looks very similar to it. Traitorous? Your paranoid logic “If you are not with us, you are against us” is just what I said – paranoid or you are, maybe, just too emotional. We are on same side. Actually, I am comparing all these games with one game - Third Reich. This game is not perfect but very close to perfection.

[n0kn0k]

Btw what's the other game you're talking about? You made me curious.

I'm comparing SC2 with other games also. And not even always with Turn based games. There are many games and improvements possible which have examples in many different genres.

[Desert Dave]

A feisty SC Cat,

I like that,

Especially,

Say - the Brother the one fox-hole over

Is eating AK-47 jackets for lunch.

Thanks for advice Desert Dave but no, I will not quit.

Yep, stand-up is... old school.

Quitting... ain't so bold, or cool.

Think - what if?

Armstrong the champ American Biker

Or ennybody else afflicted

With Cancer for that matter... just quit,

And didn't wrestle that dirty-dog

Devil of a scoundrel

Down to the Ground?

Though, here, that wasn't my intent.

I meant - QUIT!

Bad mouthing SC-2!

Ah, you don't EVEN do that, eh?

Well, let's select out a few samples:

__________________________________

"In SC2 game (sorry for mentioning this game again) I have had very, very stupid situation. AI tried invasion on Norway without HQ unit (quick explanation: HQ unit gives supplies to units and it is only source of supply if you don’t have port or city) and invasion failed. It withdraw unit in mountain tile and stack there with supply at 0. I pay no attention to this unit and it stayed there until end of game!! This is total unrealistic and stupid situation."

_________________________________________

Crimeney, there's that STUPID sh*t again!

(... twice in one short 'graph, you said it)

Who is stupid, in this instance?

Because,

You CANNOT have a "stupid situation"

Without some somebody having

Made it so?

Can you?

Think?

___________________________________

"Nevertheless, this movement rule is now my bigger concern then swapping. Is it possible to move all units first and then attack? Please don’t tell me that you have exactly the same movement rule as SC2 game: move and attack (or vice versa) but if you move unit and deselect it you can’t attack anymore with this unit."

________________________________

Please!

Don't have it like that OTHER game,

Which we don't gotta mention EVERY time,

Since we've been done it often enough

That folks must surely wonder?

This feisty kinda Cat has got

Third Reich on the brain?

Sunshine, sturm, drang or, rain.

__________________________________

"Hm, hm remember Strategic Command 2 bad amphibious concept. I asked about amphibious assaults earlier but it was too early I suppose. Now we got something but still information’s are incomplete."

___________________________

Bad?

Well,

This very word choice MIGHT? indicate

That the Author has low opinion?

Of that 3rd Reich game?

I love this game like you and participating in making from beginning of SC1. I will continue make suggestions until Hubert says “I am done with this game”. Even then I will try to give some suggestions in case that Hubert decides to start make Strategic Command 3.

I believe you.

Yet, that is not the general issue

Just now under discussion,

"Bad-mouthing," in particular, is.

Let's take a moment and consider:

It's a given in Show Business

(... many other places too, but I'll select

an area I happen to know fair thee well)

That ANY publicity is good publicity,

Even if it be... terrible,

Horrible, monstrous or bad.

OTOH,

Should some stray soul wander in and read

Such stuff as you've said above,

Rather,

The WAY in which you have said it,

I wonder?

Would they say, hmmmm,

That game MUST be WORTH buying?

I wonder.

Two diametrical points of view.

You choose.

Given the two choices

(... and not the myriad many

that are POSSIBLE in between, I mean)

Which would most likely be the case.

...and I am playing strategy games all my life (and this is long time, believe me ).

First part - check, me too.

Second part - check, mate, and alas,

Where went that - tweet-tweet!

"Sweet Bird Of Youth,"

Mister Tennessee?

lol

Traitorous? Your paranoid logic “If you are not with us, you are against us” is just what I said – paranoid or you are, maybe, just too emotional.

I SAID, should you examine more closely,

That some folks MIGHT

Begin to get

That idea, IE, that you are, like

Janus, having another

Face - at the back of yer head.

And naw,

I ain't "paranoid" - Man, there simply CANNOT

Be any reason

For that... heightened awareness,

I prefer to call it,

IF we must use these usually ill-understood

Sorts of "arm-chair" diagnoses,

Can there?

Given the events of the last 50 odd years

In this the land I was born in,

Since

House UN-American Activities Committee

Became posse comitatus,

Anyhow.

Key word being - posse.

Whoso! chase and yell and sometimes

Lynch.

For no good reason, a'times.

Maybe they ain't like - STUPID people?

As for emotional... well, there

You'd get some kinda vigorous argument

From my wife,

Who has said it once!

If not 10,000 times!

"You are just too too stoic,

Where ever do you go?"

I tell her,

5,000 times - I am just old Alley Cat

Has got belly-scratched,

And same as that sort of cat,

Whenever wounded or "out of it,"

As we usta say back in the day,

I'll go find a dark, quiet corner

And lick my own wounds.

OTOH,

I CAN be "emotive," now & again,

And,

From what I ken gather,

So can 99% of those on this very forum!

We are on same side.

Perhaps... better to live it out

Like... a free floating

Mote of Dandelion fluff,

Which has - no sides.

Though,

Somebody here could probably demonstrate

Undeniably!

On some sort of scatter graph

Or hi-tech slide rule

Or a real swell bell-curve,

EVEN that ain't true.

Kidding around aside, and again,

Yep, we are after one and the same thing.

A better 'n better SC-2!

So, I say again - it would be more, ummmm,

Judicious of you

Not to keep saying

Over and over and over and over

And over!

How... stupid, bad, stupid

And so on and so forth,

Ad nauseum,

That THIS particular game is.

Now,

You see what I'm gettin' at?

Feisty Cat? :cool:

[pzgndr]

Actually, I am comparing all these games with one game - Third Reich. This game is not perfect but very close to perfection.

It is the Holy Grail of WWII grand strategy. But alas it defies definition as "one game." The original Third Reich had four editions. And then there was Advanced Third Reich. And now there is A World At War. Not to be forgotten, John Prados hisownself released a revision of the classic original. To point at "one game" means pointing in half a dozen directions...

But I know what you mean.

[Bromley]

Originally posted by n0kn0k:

Btw what's the other game you're talking about? You made me curious.

Slitherine's "Commander - Europe at War".

[Desert Dave]

a one

There are many games and improvements possible which have examples in many different genres.

... anna 2

To point at "one game" means pointing in half a dozen directions...

Not if yer "pointing" specifically

(... or, inferring, implying, well,

you catch the drift)

By name,

At SC-2.

Look, everybody, just... forget it.

I am delusional.

I am paranoid.

I am emotive.

I am Stranger

In a strange land.

I am overly protective of this turf

I have fought all across.

Whatever.

Perhaps this is,

As many things are,

Quite like the infamous California city

Of San Jose,

(... to para phrase G. Stein)

"There isn't any - THERE,

there."

[Lars]

"In SC2 game (sorry for mentioning this game again) I have had very, very stupid situation. AI tried invasion on Norway without HQ unit (quick explanation: HQ unit gives supplies to units and it is only source of supply if you don’t have port or city) and invasion failed. It withdraw unit in mountain tile and stack there with supply at 0. I pay no attention to this unit and it stayed there until end of game!! This is total unrealistic and stupid situation."

To get back to this again, while it may be stupid, it's not unrealistic.

Adolph in his wisdom left troops out on the Channel Islands for the duration. Wanted the "prestige" of occupying UK territory, even though they were strategically worthless.

So make your own rational of why he'd leave troops in the mountains. Heavy water, or maybe there was the world's biggest ski jump there.

[Bromley]

I'll answer for vveedd and say that the Channel Islands were much smaller scale than he's talking about. A quick google shows about 30,000 men (which was more than I'd guessed there were).

So either you "zoom" the game in, in which case more supply centres would show and they'd be in supply in the Channel Islands, or you don't and they're too small to show.

Personally, I have sympathy for what vveedd is saying. I just don't see it as a big enough problem for Hubert to devote time to.

[Lars]

One example among many. Just the first that came to mind.

[vveedd]

Desert Dave

In all my posts you have quoted I was right and only said my opinion. If you are offended with words stupid or unrealistic I am sorry but this is my opinion.

Quote about supply rule problem:

I was, maybe, wrong about number of soldiers in Corps or Army but my opinion is still that this is stupid situation. Imagine - 30,000 enemy soldier lives at top of mountain on enemy soil for 3-4 years WITHOUT any supply and do nothing. Even if this is possible, after all this time they will be hardly ready for fight. You can hardly call them soldiers after that.

Quote about bad amphibious concept in SC2:

I will not say anything more about bad amphibious assault concept in SC2 again. You all know how this concept was bad in v.1.0

Quote about bad movement in SC2:

My opinion – if you accidentally clicked somewhere when your unit was moved you can’t undo move (with undo option on OFF, of course) or attack. 3R game is very, very old, it is working in DOS and don’t have this. Panzer General 2 game also. This is, clearly, step back in this feature. Same goes for no swapping option. Maybe, stupid is too strong word but how you will call feature where you must have free 3 tiles (hexes,) at least, and you need 2 turns to do the simple swap move?

At the end I must mentioned that English is not my primary language so, maybe, I use wrong words for something from time to time but I will repeat once again: I have done that and still doing this only because I love this game and because I want to make this game better.

pzgndr – you are right. There are 4 edition of 3R but, to me, even first one was absolutely great and thank you again for making A3R mod.

P.S. I will not say name of other game because I respect and appreciate Hubert’s job in SC1 and SC2 game. Sorry guys.

[Lars]

Originally posted by vveedd:

Imagine - 30,000 enemy soldier lives at top of mountain on enemy soil for 3-4 years WITHOUT any supply and do nothing. Even if this is possible, after all this time they will be hardly ready for fight. You can hardly call them soldiers after that.

Well, they're not ready for a fight. They just sit there. What's the problem?

[Desert Dave]

I'll answer for vveedd...

Well, Bromley,

The Man - manages to speak up,

Whatever the lingua franca,

For - himself, pretty doggone good,

Should you ask me.

A Feisty SC kinda Cat

All right :cool:

And that's how you survive

In the "Spenserian" war-gaming world,

For sure!

No shortage of stout,

Near... devout, opinions

Here! LOL!

[Desert Dave]

In all my posts you have quoted I was right and only said my opinion. If you are offended with words stupid or unrealistic I am sorry but this is my opinion.

"Unrealistic" is, IMHO, how

Often the World can be.

"Stupid"

(... when referring to a living,

breathing Human in being)

I REALLY don't like

Cuz that's how "smart" folks

Used to refer to my "mentally challenged"

Uncle.

Heard it,

Didn't like it,

Did my best to kick *ss,

No matter the relative size

Of the bully involved, and, then,

Went on to home

And found that dark, quiet corner,

Beat up some - but glad inside

I had stuck up for him.

So,

Referring back to an earlier comment,

I suppose you COULD say

That I am indeed, a'times,

"Emotional."

My apologies for making all of this MORE

Than what it might have been,

Were I more... "judicious"

In word choice, my ownself.

[ March 09, 2007, 08:34 AM: Message edited by: Desert Dave ]

[adolfi]

if they are without weed, i am sure they find the way south

[Desert Dave]

Originally posted by Lars:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by vveedd:

Imagine - 30,000 enemy soldier lives at top of mountain on enemy soil for 3-4 years WITHOUT any supply and do nothing. Even if this is possible, after all this time they will be hardly ready for fight. You can hardly call them soldiers after that.

Well, they're not ready for a fight. They just sit there. What's the problem? </font>

[vveedd]

Originally posted by adolfi:

if they are without weed, i am sure they find the way south

I agree, without me and current supply rule in which they have movement points = 0.

[n0kn0k]

Originally posted by Bromley:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by n0kn0k:

Btw what's the other game you're talking about? You made me curious.

Slitherine's "Commander - Europe at War". </font>

[Lars]

Originally posted by Desert Dave:

AM talking about

Precisely those situations where

You have a stray unit

Just... sitting there.

What use?

(... didn't we do this already, kinda

deja vu all over again? )

Yep, we done this before.

But I'll stand by what I said. Who cares? It has no impact really. And I read Supply 0 as "no supply for military operations", not "we're all going to die". Vveed is just upset the game doesn't work the way he wants it to work.

Do you really want to get into the argument of whether a unit should disappear after 4 turns? Or should it be 6? Modified for rough, swamp, mountain, desert, plain, steppe, French vineyards, etc. What a Pandora's Box.

There's better things for Hubert to do with his time, quite honestly.

[Bromley]

Originally posted by Desert Dave:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> I'll answer for vveedd...

Well, Bromley, The Man - manages to speak up,</font>

[vveedd]

Desert Dave, Lars

You guys just don’t get it. This game should have been better and still can be better if we continue to offer good suggestions to Hubert. Maybe all my suggestions were not so good but, at least, I tried. Just have a look at pzgndr Advanced Third Reich scenario for SC2. For start look how map is made. This is how map should have been in all original SC2 scenarios IMO. This map is great step forward after SC1 map. If you compare current SC2 map with SC1 map you can say step forward in graphics and design but not in gameplay (tiles feature excluded). The easiest way is to say “This game is good as it can be”. Of course, this is only my opinion, your right is to disagree. It is a free cyberspace.

[Desert Dave]

Desert Dave, Lars

You guys just don’t get it.

LOL,

Well,

I won't speak for Lars

As he is MORE than able

To state his own case,

And needs no help from me

Or that peripatetic Bromley,

Or anyone else for that matter, yep,

He is apparently - inner directed.

(... see below)

I must admit... there are THOUSANDS

Of things that I don't "get," ah,

Perhaps it is that I am... stupid?

Since some folks suppose there IS

Such a thing?

IE: WRT Humans, and not O/W.

Which is ridiculous if not absurd,

But,

That's how they like to look at the world,

With mule-blinders on, so to speak.

However, here

It is abundantly UN-clear

Just... what it is that I don't - get?

Maybe the next few quotes will

Provide the clues?

This game should have been better...

ANYTHING "could have been" something

Other than what it was.

Should have been

Is a whole 'nother smoke, Jamoke.

Better? - sure, there's an ideal!

No thing is EVER... perfect.

Except for... the London Werewolf's hair,

That is.

That it often is not perfect,

Or anything at'all - was not - whose

"Fault" is that?

CANNOT be Hubert,

As you would surely hesitate

To venture that HE

Could've failed everyone so awfully,

True?

So,

As several others have also implied,

Earlier and only recently,

It must be!

The Play Testers. :eek:

Now!

We are narrowing it down, at last!

Bill and I have been there the longest,

So it must be us.

Yet... wait!

You revere Bill's work

(... as we will soon see)

So... it must be - me!

I am not only paranoid

And Emotive!

I AM... stupid. :cool:

Like my Mom's Brother, my Uncle,

Who was the gentlest,

Kindest Human I have ever met

In ALL these VERY long years

Of my one and only life.

Wish I could live up to that,

But,

Alas... haven't yet, mea culpa.

... and still can be better if we continue to offer good suggestions to Hubert.

Hmmm, I do believe that's what IS occuring

Right this very moment,

Ain't it?

Just have a look at pzgndr Advanced Third Reich scenario for SC2.

I have.

He first sent it to me 6 months ago.

He is the best map-maker on the board,

Bar none.

IMHO.

For start look how map is made.

YOU!

Who ADORE that Third Reich game,

Can notice - can you not?

That it does NOT have the SAME scale.

Bill's is... ~ TWICE as large,

Has... ~ TWICE as many units!

Imagine that.

This is how map should have been in all original SC2 scenarios IMO.

No it shouldn't.

IMHO.

~50/60 miles per tile is,

Like the Baby Bear's porridge,

Just right!

For a WW-2 GS game.

Who, I wonder, was crying

The Kansas City Blues

(... over at that OTHER forum, which

we won't mention HERE, eh? Though we WILL

mention SC-2 over there, and, accidentally

or no - due to Tower of Babel

difficulties, not so favorably)

About how LONG the game would take

To play,

Should such & so be implemented,

I forget what that such & so was,

But,

Actually - don't give a damn

What the hell it was.

Can you imagine how long it would take

To play - PBEM, or

HeadhunterVSHeadhunter

If the map was... ~25 miles per tile?

With ~ twice as many units?

And besides, you also revere

Third Reich the board-game

In all 3 or 4 of it's manifestations,

So why? would you want ALL scenarios

To be twice as large as that game anyway?

The easiest way is to say “This game is good as it can be”.

Find the quote vveedd,

Where ANYBODY ever said such a thing,

And post it here in this thread.

I myself have never seen it

Stated - no way, no how.

Maybe you can find it - good luck on that!

Of course, this is only my opinion, your right is to disagree.

Well,

It ain't enny "right"

That is granted by some Authority.

It is inherent in the human condition.

See,

As Riesen has detailed for us

In his X-cellent book:

"The Lonely Crowd,"

We have mostly become a group/tribe/clan

Of... followers.

(... more exactly, "outer-directed"

instead of "inner-directed," OR... as Abe

Maslow would have it - notso capable

of "self-actualization"... now all of that

is inside baseball - to me, so I leave it

at this: folks seems to CRAVE some sort

of guidance from - "above," or

sans that, here below, often, from some

Bad Cat thinks he knows it all, see what

I mean here? As them "good Germans"

did... as oppposed to, deliberately,

and even - to the bitter dead end, saying

what they REALLY think, and feel, WITHOUT

ANY

cues or prompting from ANYBODY else,

and etc)

Better for whole dying World

Should we be more akin

To them what lived in

American Frontier, 19th Century.

And then!

Commence to consider ourselves

As capable of... damn near ANYTHING,

'Stead of accepting

What is shoved down our throats,

And thence, what else?

Just... do it. :cool:

It is a free cyberspace.

Read the fine print, Brother.

Have a good long look around.

THAT statement is very nearly

False - now.

Give it another 10 years.

It won't ONLY be

The FBI/Interpol or

Geometrically increasing "Derivatives"

Of same devious devise,

Or, the MegaCorps

Who are spying on you.

Leaving cookie crumbs

All over the shrinking table space,

It'll be... everyone

Who doesn't believe,

Nope,

Not... for... ONE... freaking SECOND,

That they are... stupid.

THOSE are the ones we actually gotta

Watch out for.

IMHO.

Alright, enough of this,

I am done with it.

(... off-screen, faint-ly

now... "yay, hooray!" LOL! )

[ March 10, 2007, 08:30 AM: Message edited by: Desert Dave ]

[Kuniworth]

Desert Dave;

Let me see if I understand this. You are angry because Biowizard sent threats to Rambo and now want to blame it on vveedd?

vveed:

Are you biwizard?

[pzgndr]

Bill's is... ~ TWICE as large,

Has... ~ TWICE as many units!

Just a correction here regarding my mod. The force pool is essentially the same as A3R with the same number of units. The map scale is doubled to account for no stacking in SC2.

Carry on.

[Desert Dave]

Desert Dave;

Let me see if I understand this. You are angry...

What're you K-worth?

Active member of RNC these days?

(... IE, Republican National Committee

whoso j'accuse! ANYBODY who

disagrees with their, ummm, authoritarian

agenda, as being angry or traitor

or some damn fool thang )

Enuff of that guff stuff!

I ain't enny

Crudely fashioned Voo-Doo Doll

You ken stick

Ball-hat-pins in.

Just a correction here regarding my mod. The force pool is essentially the same as A3R with the same number of units. The map scale is doubled to account for no stacking in SC2.

Carry on.

Pardon me,

(... I guess I was comparing

To # of units in SC-2?)

Sir.

[gravyface1]

Ok I gotta ask: what is with Desert Dave and his "interesting" use of line breaks?