Port Question - Gibraltar

[Edwin P.]

If neutral Spain annexes Gibraltar due a scripted event (ie if the UK surrenders or fails to garrison the port) will Allied and Axis ships be free to transit the straits of Gibraltar? Or could an event be written to reduce the value of this port to zero so ships of both sides can transit this tile?

I ask because it seems most unrealistic to me that neutral Spain could bar warships of either major alliance from transiting the straits.

Note: The events I an considering include:

1. IF UK Surrenders then Neutral Spain Annexes UK Controlled Gibraltar. (50%)

2. IF UK Controlled Gibraltar AND its port hex are not garrisoned then Neutral Spain Annexes Gibraltar (1% - 1 in 100 turns, a rare but most surprising event) and allows Allied and Axis warships to transit the straits.

For those who think this option (Option 2) is not realistic I refer you to the Falklands War. The UK withdrew their garrison and naval patrol from the Island. Argentina then, most unexpectedly, invaded this overseas British territory.

[ August 19, 2004, 04:31 AM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[Retributar]

If Gibralter is allowed to transit Axis Shipping...you can bet your Little-Booties...that the British will put a swift end to that nonsense!.

[Lars]

You're assuming there would be no government in exile.

Pass it along to Canada.

[Edwin P.]

I am assuming that the Spanish government, with the conquest of Britain by the Axis powers, may attempt to seize control of the Rock, a publicly stated goal of the Spanish government for over 300 years, a piece of land that was historically part of Spain until the Treaty of Utrecht.

Strategically important, Gibraltar was ceded to Great Britain by Spain in the 1713 Treaty of Utrecht; the British garrison was formally declared a colony in 1830. In referendums held in 1967 and 2002, Gibraltarians ignored Spanish pressure and voted overwhelmingly to remain a British dependency.

The return of Gibraltar to Spain has remained a foreign policy goal for all Spanish rulers since the area was lost to Britain under the terms of the Treaty of Utrecht in 1713. Franco's fierce determination to regain Gibraltar culminated in his closing the frontier between Spain and Gibraltar in 1969. Governments that came to power after the regime was democratized engaged in calmer but equally persistent negotiations with the British and with the residents of Gibraltar over the future of the area.

In my view, Franco would calculate that he could safely reclaim Gibraltar after the UK surrendered as long as his forces did not hinder passage to any Axis ships transiting the straits.

As for the British Garrison on Gibraltar continuing the fight, I believe that to be wishful thinking. They country has surrendered and probably ordered all their soldiers to also surrender. They are isolated with no source of supply readily available and no means to pay for it.

[ August 19, 2004, 04:21 AM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[Lars]

In my view, the remains of the Royal Navy would be sitting in port and would give Franco a very warm reception. And there would be plenty of supply and troops from Canada with nothing else to do.

All that aside, what you're really asking is for the Axis to get Gibraltar for free.

[Retributar]

That was my thought also Lars ...i just can't seem to succinctely summarize a point as you or others can!.

[photonred]

I must point out that without the unsinkable aircraft carrier (England) Atlantic transport of goods would be very much limited due to increased Axis wolfpacks and that same air base being used against Canadian support of an outpost.

[Liam]

Even after a Nation surrenders Navys will fight on! See the Brit worries of the French Navy. The German Navy after WW1. Even if England surrenders, some ships and coastal batteries may fight but withstand a real assualt on the Rock? Doubtful. Even in SC original some territories remain Brit and Canada doesn't surrender!!! So why would Gibraltar? Annoying for the Axis but realistic, there would be resistence everywhere. French resisted the Germans if there was a greater effort for them at Dunqurkue, perhaps more would've

[photonred]

Its not about whether or not the British navy would fight on or not if Spain following the surrender of England decided to annex Gibralter there is no possable way for the Garrison to survive without supply which would undoubtedly be severely limited without England in the Allies hands.

[Edwin P.]

The fact is that for 300 years Spanish Kings and Governments have sought the return of Gibraltar.

As photonred says, if Spain decides to Annex Gibraltar, and it probably would if London surrendered, the garrison therein would likely be forced to surrender, if not by the prospect of 10,000 Spanish tropps but by the fact that the nearest source of supply would be across the Atlantic Ocean and the only alternative to Spanish control would be German control of the Rock. By surrendering to the Spanish the British troops could deprive Germany of control over the Rock.

[ August 24, 2004, 10:31 AM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[Lars]

Where was their source of supply before a British surrender?

Across the ocean...