Terif vs Liam AAR

[Liam]

Starting the game tough, gave him a slow Poland to conquor and nearly forced it past 4 turns. Went on to give him a Tough French Campaign. No real engagements afterward. Terif managed to get Spain by Diplo... British moved through North Africa. I do not think there were major losses until 1941.

Only Major battle other than the openings was the Battle of the Rock. Where Germany was held in check and so was Britian, losing Gibraltar but holding the Med.

The British took Libya, leaving Tobruk, kept Egypt. The Axis focused on USSR, which didn't manage to acquire much tech due to some bad luck. The British however were maxed out in Units and Tech nearly, which wasn't much good, Fortified France was unwelcoming and the only thing the Brits could do was Stomp the MidEast. MPPs in favor of the Allies, and though in the end the Reds got tech for Summer of '42 battle of Stalingrad was the end of the Allies...

overcommitted and foolish, throwing what few precious units they could muster into Superior Firing Lines so the Axis could make short order of them. This was the last and only Major Battle of the Game. Had tech swung a little the other way, and had I had a bit more foresight in my tactics perhaps could've made a very interesting Battle for Terif. Though we traded blows, he may have lost 3 or 4 units, I lost double or triple that. Despite inflicting massive casualties on Axis ground troops and moving British Fighters into Interception mode for the Caucasus, the Superior Luftwaffe spelt the doom for the Reds, they couldn't follow up their Hard won Ground battles with destructive Air Combos like the Germans to finish off their foe nor outflank them in mud or difficult terrain without Motors...

I suppose next game I will have to rethink my poor Allied Long Game.

Beware of forgetting these techs!

Cost me this game

[Terif]

In this game Axis used a non-aggression strategy and even never sent units to Africa (italian army got evacuated to defend the mainland). UK expected the usual diplo way and neglection of Spain so it obviously didn´t block it and invested instead heavily into Iraq - therefore Spain joined Axis end of 1940.

Liam prepared against my aggrssive strategy from last game where Axis took all minors and Africa pre-Barbarossa but started Barbarossa late, so he invested 5 research chits into Industry Tech as Russia instead of combat techs.

When Axis now unleashed its concentrated power against Russia already in the first summer turns of 1941, Russia had no combat tech at all and how revealed after the war sold his IT chits to buy now IW and AT chits - within only a few turns he managed to get to IW level 3, but at this time Axis forces were already standing at the gates of Stalingrad .

[Terif]

Here a few screenshots:

Axis forces when Barbarossa started at July 13, 1941:

Within 2 months the main russian defence line gets reached - lv 2 IW vs lv 0. German tanks smash through the enemy lines like butter...

During Winter 41/42 Axis forces regroup, implement their newly researched Infantry Weapons Lv 3 and prepare for the final assault at Stalingrad (Moskov and the northern cities already conquered in Summer 41).

USA joins in May 1942 - so Germany can operate its units used in the west to conquer Portugal, Vichy and Switzerland to the eastern front.

The following 4 screenshots show the last battle - in the first stage Russia tried to kill one german tank at all costs - one german tank lost, in return 8 russian units destroyed.

Second stage: Russia launches its kamikaze fighters on the ground and in the air: 2 german corps lost, russian air destroyed on the ground, 6 russian units destroyed and with them the core of the russian forces, gates to Caucasus and Ural wide open...unconditional allied surrender the consequence. Total losses of the war: 3 german units (tank + 2 corps) vs 25 russian units (24 ground + 1 AF):

[ January 02, 2007, 09:04 AM: Message edited by: Terif ]

[TaoJah]

I suppose that the HQs were there but invisible on the screenshots ?

But no fortifications around Stalingrad, isn't it the best place to fortify ? The hexes just N and S of the city can only be attacked from two squares, I ALWAYS fortify those, even against an AI that will probably never get there.

Not that it would have matter that much in this game if he didn't have tech in tanks and lost so many units so fast, but still.

[Liam]

Taojah, actually you're right Stalingrad is an excellent place to fortify North and South. Though I was trying to fortify Kharkov and further West rather than expend my Engineer on something he couldn't finish. Terif launched Barbarossa rather early too, so there wasn't much time for it...

I did have IW investments a little longer, I sold off my intel, rockets, advanced air, production tech to invest in IW and AT at some point or another. I believe I had a year or so of no luck with 2 chits. I will not repeat this error, 4 to 5 chits in IT and never recieving a return on the investment! As you can see, it was a steamroll, I should've relocated to Iraq Sorta like the Gulf War

Originally posted by TaoJah:

I suppose that the HQs were there but invisible on the screenshots ?

But no fortifications around Stalingrad, isn't it the best place to fortify ? The hexes just N and S of the city can only be attacked from two squares, I ALWAYS fortify those, even against an AI that will probably never get there.

Not that it would have matter that much in this game if he didn't have tech in tanks and lost so many units so fast, but still.

[n0kn0k]

Interesting

[Jollyguy]

In my recently concluded game with Terif, where I was Allies, I got good diplomacy luck and got Iraq; shut off the Swedish ore deliveries; and also got a mucho hit on Spain, forcing the Axis to invest numerous chits in Rumania and Hungary. Our game started probably a month ago, and this actually could have been the precursor to his recent strategy of foregoing Spain diplo sometimes, because eventually his minors came around and he just invaded Franco instead.

I engaged him at the Rock with the RN, all the while still holding Brest. Then after the Rock fell he paid attention to Brest, but I saw a perfect opportunity to keep the city reduced for an early D-day, which is what I did with the help of my BB’s moving back from Gibralter, and after he moved east for Barbarossa. So, the RN, with the help of my bomber, kept Brest and its port around 0, and then with the help of long range air I spotted a German HQ near Marseilles trying to support Brest’s garrison, an IW and AT 3 corp. I moved in two level 1 carriers, with long range air being the only time I’ll upgrade a carrier, and then only sometimes, but it can come in handy, which it did. Anyway, with the help of my two fighters who had gained significant experience at Brest, plus the experienced bomber, combined with the two carriers, I took out the HQ. I was feeling pretty good.

Then, knowing that the Axis Barbarossa had to be early and light due to the late minor arrival and chits needed to convince them to join and not getting the Swedish ore, I decided on an aggressive Russian strategy, and we exchanged units back-and-forth near the Dnieper line, including him landing a paratroop directly on my backfield HQ while going after my pesky fighter, both which survived, and me taking the paratroop out the next turn, as a 0 supply unit can’t fight too well. In addition I took out both his tanks, probably two or three armies, and a bunch of corps, losing at least the same but probably more in return. To give maximum effort to Barbarossa proper, I abandoned the Caucuss city and oilfields, holding the two other cities in the mountains, which in hindsight was probably a mistake.

Meanwhile, out west, I landed in force with the Brits and Americans, both up to IW 3, as I could see that he hadn’t had enough time to construct extensive fortifications. He let me land easy at first, but then greeted me aggressively as I moved inland, and my air units had to retreat back to England after getting bloody noses. Luckily I had another British HQ in the queue to backup my air, and we eventually went toe-to-toe in France, and I even took Paris. I think we each lost a dozen units, including the Axis losing numerous tanks and armies to withering Allied air support from England and my carriers and even shore bombardment when he would move on the coast to finish something off, and for a turn or two and I even thought the tide might turn my way, but like a boxer who puts his head down and just keeps on coming, that’s what Terif did, all the while pressuring me in Russia despite the Siberians, who eventually helped reconquer the Caucusses, but too late. He kept plodding forward toward Stalingrad, and it was clear he would eventually isolate the Caucusses.

Meanwhile in France my Allies had exhausted themselves and I had to retreat back toward Brest. So, even though I could have made it into 1943, no problem, I didn’t see the purpose, so I conceded.

So, in hindsight, I destroyed more Axis land units of Terif’s than I ever have, including that HQ. All told I think I took out at least 18 and perhaps even 20 or 25 units, but all for naught.

Anyway, that’s a quick AAR, make of it what you may. Meanwhile, I’ve started another game with Terif, me Allies, as even though these games are painful they are always great experience builders. I’ll do things a bit differently, try a few new things, and who knows, maybe 2007 is the first time Terif will be dealt a loss.

Bob

[TaoJah]

Originally posted by Jollyguy:

I decided on an aggressive Russian strategy

Does that EVER pay off against a human, even when his Barbarossa is very light ?

And for an allied landing... Everyone always lands in France, probably because that's where the real landing took place. I wonder if it's not worth trying to take on of the two German cities. Or Brussels.

Also... do you keep MPPs ready for repairs or do you spend everything on more troops ? I always wonder what's the best strategy there is !

[Liam]

This aggressive strategy that Jolly spoke of rarely works. The Russians need 2 years to build up enough to destroy a 'competent' Germany. The only time the Russians can destroy the Wehrmacht is when they're numerical superior to begin with. Plus the tech to match

The Germans have 5 or 6 air, generally 2 bars at least per. By the middle of Barby this experience excels to nearly 3 or 4 bars making their Fighters damageproof. On top of it, if the Axis know how, an Army bigger than the Russians! What does the USSR have to contend with? Very little aside from wise withdrawls and traps which over time build her strength, eventually surpassing that of Germany with IT

[Jollyguy]

I agree, attacking up front doesn’t work for the Russians against a superior Axis opponent, even in the situation I was in facing a lighter Barbarossa. Early in the war the Axis can afford to replace their losses, and faster, not so for the Russians. But hard earned experience is the best teacher, and there is a lot of experience needed in SC2 to become a competent H to H player, and one has to be willing to take the lumps to get there.

Bob

[Jollyguy]

TaoJah;

France is not the end all. I am playing as Axis against Colin, and he has pulled off a well executed African campaign, even with me holding Gibralter. He just took Tunis, and is heading for the next Italian city to the east, which is empty. He did this after I evicted him from Sweden and Norway, after an ill-timed DOW by him of poor King Gustav, in which he lost several high value English units.

But he has recovered well in Africa, where I have lost numerous high vallue units, too, including a German HQ and tank sunk trying to sneak behind his lines, plus an Italian HQ, Army, two corps, and a German paratrooper during our bloody land battle around Tunis.

Bob

[Edwin P.]

Taojah, the best strategy is to always change your strategy. In one game I invaded Brest, in another Spain (if the Axis has not taken Spain you can conquer Portugal and after building up in Portgual take Madrid in one turn with the right mix of forces), in another Brussels, and in another Italy (but only after sinking the Italian navy).

[Jollyguy]

Edwin is absolutely correct, you must learn how to adapt, which is why I tried an aggressive Russian strategy and early D-day against Terif. It didnt' work, but my process was correct: I analyzed the board and size-up the situation, and tried to hit in force where my opponent was weakest. Against most other player it probably would have worked, just not against The Master.

I.e., if your Axis opponent is wall-to-wall in France, crowded with fortifications and units, attack somewhere else. You have Sweden, Portugal, Casablanca to begin with. By the summer of 1942 the Allies should be able to assemble a fairly potent invasion force, put it to use where you get the most leverage.

Terif is 100% correct when he says you must be adaptive, and you only learn to do that through experience.

Bob

[TaoJah]

BTW what about Norway ? If the Allied take it, is it worth taking back ? Land a HQ, an army or two, put some planes in Denmark perhaps ?

Or sneak in and take back one (or both) of the two coastal cities ?

[Jollyguy]

In most situations I don’t think Norway is worth the Axis reclaiming. In a game where I’m Allied my Axis opponent just did that. But it cost him the amphib cost of two armies and two corps, plus the eventual transport costs to get them back to the continent for Barbarossa. And just as important, it left me in possession of Egypt and Brest that much longer, which is what, 25 mpps per turn? And for most Axis players (like myself), the longer they leave Brest and Egypt unconquered, the better chance they have of being off balance and/or having to incur operating costs moving units around rather than walk them east for Barbarossa.

IMO a lot of decisions in SC2 can be reduced to a cost/benefit analysis. If you put pencil to paper you should be able to determine roughly if the cost of the attack is worth the expected benefits.

Bob