I can't defend against sea lion

[vector]

I can't defend against sea lion. He hits me with 3 German and 1 Italian air units and invades with 5 armies, 1 airborne corps and a HQ.

At this point I have the BEF, 1 corps and 1 HQ and 1 air unit I moved early from Egypt. The first clear weather the German have in 1940 they hit London with all 4 air attacks, then hit the city with 4 army attacks and an airborne attack. It's gone. The Germans have London.

My air units don't do much good because it is 2 against 4 and it is hard to keep them reinforced and the the UK navy up on such limited MPPs. If you leave a city unoccupied to counter attack his beachhead his airborne corps takes one of your unprotected cities in one turn.

I am very frustrated. Whats the answer? Move 100% of Egypt assets on turn one to the UK. I am pretty sure that works but historically it makes my stomach turn because I know it is completely and utterly unrealistic (not to mention that Germany had no way to invade England at that time) Ok deep breaths, it's only a game, it's only a game (smile).

[vector]

PS- The UK navy is worthless when it comes to attacking tansports. This should be fixed!!! A Battleship group should take out a transport in one shot. I hit the german transport with 2 UPGRADED battleships and upgraded cruiser and it only took 5 out of 11 points off the transport. BS BS BS. 2 points per attack from the BB's and 1 point attack on the cruiser. Yeah, like that would happen with no german navy near by. Then he lands with his full forces in tact and the one damaged 5 point army.

The rest of my navy was gone due to skirmishes with the German Navy. I took out both their CA's and all three of the Subs but I was obviously beat up by the time of the invasion.

[Blashy]

An actual landing of TROOPS is not likely to be stopped, but a successfull landing sure can.

And yes the next patch the transports take alot more damage.

By the time the player is done invading, USA and USSR are in and that is to your advantage.

[TFL]

In my experience attacker has the harder part in v1.04 if he makes sealion.

- USA and Soviets are not at all happy. Since their readiness goes up also their production increases giving them more and better forces.

- Mancester can be defended for quite a while usually. After that he will have to kill every last one british troop on the island to be able to whitdraw from there.

- Even if you lose the island, your opponent will have to go Egypt next (assuming you have managed to hold on to it so far). You can buy all the lost troops at discount for defence of egypt. Europe is quite vulnerable from the south so this position might even be better for you then good old england.

All in all, I think that even a succesfull sealion doesn't benefit the germans that much in v1.04. Germans only get some 30 MMPs more. At the same time the african resources for the UK go to 8. Since US and USSR will enter the war sooner, I think the Germans would have benefited more by spending the same troops and MMPs elsewhere. So take your time, do as much damage to your opponent while his taking the island and continue the battle from Egypt. The game is not over even if you lost the U.K, quite the opposite.

[JJColorado]

Well I think the key is not to let much get ashore. You can't kill all of his transports but you can really beat them up. Here is what I do, of course I'm kind of a newbie. But I lost England once not doing these things and by doing these things I've stood off 2 Sealions. It seems that every German will at least give it a try:

1) Move most assets from Egypt by around turn 5(?). I usually leave an infantry corp and maybe an army in Egypt along w/ 1-2 BB. Everything else goes to England. These assets don't have to land in England if it looks like Sealion is not gonna happen but just head them that way. As long as you don't unload them they can go back to Egypt, and some can sit along the African coast south of Gib to see how things look then pop back to Egypt if desired.

2) Position your air 1 outside of his spotting range. Usually this is just north of London once France falls. The bomber can spot way out to the east so you should see him coming.

3) If your air is getting beat up ground your fighters so they don't get spotted. If they intercept then he can see them and airstrike them even if they are one hex outside of his spotting range.

4) Get your HQ to England ASAP (see point 1) unless you are going to build an HQ in England.

5) Concentrate every possible RN ship at England. Leave nothing at Gib and maybe 1 ship or zero at Egypt. The RN can be used to intimidate the German. If anything floating moves out of port just absolutely swarm it and sink it. This discourages the Germans for sure.

6) Patrol w/ a cruiser every other turn or so just west of France and over around Norway. You need to see it coming, and you might catch something at sea to kill.

7) Try to clog up the area north and east of London. The Germans will want to land east of London so don't leave them much space to do so. Don't necessarily fill these hexes until you think the invasion is at sea because otherwise he will bomb you here.

8) If the Germans do get ashore they should be at very low strength and be on the coast where your RN can bombard them. Make every effort to kill their HQ's first.

Once you get a sense that Sealion is not happening then sail those transports back to Egypt that have not unloaded yet.

Even if Sealion succeeds - which it probably won't - it will cost the Germans their army and bring in USA and USSR which can be very bad when the Germans have no army.

If a German attempts Sealion vs a prepared Britain and fails - make them play the game out to the end. Germany takes a huge chance - they should live w/ the consequences of such a big gamble. If they fail or if they lose their army and Russia comes into Germany - that is the price they pay. Play the game to the end. Don't let them surrender. Maybe this will make them consider the consequences the next time.

[ November 06, 2006, 08:17 AM: Message edited by: JJColorado ]

[Retributar]

Again, as alway's i would like to see 'weather' as being an important factor in conducting amphibious assault's, with the appropriate consequence's applied for carrying through with it...in less than ideal weather and channel oceanographic condition's!.

[Liam]

Sea Lion isn't important! If the Axis attack and destroy UK, it will cost them more than it's worth if you defended it good. If your units are busy, recon well so you know to expect an Axis attack, that's real simple:)

[vector]

JJColorado, great advice thanks. Bottom line is you have to give up the UK or Egypt to an experienced player because you can't hold both.

[Retributar]

If weather is ever to be an important factor for amphibious invasion's, it might be important to keep in mind that the Allies had meteorologist's in Iceland, or Greenland or both, and so were then in a better postion to be able to determine the most-likely weather condition's in the English Channel, such as for the 'Invasion of Normandy!'.

The German's of course did not have access to those area's to assist them to better help determine the regional weather probabilities, so as in the 'Invasion of Normandy' situation, they would be more likely to get a false determination on the actual outcome of the upcoming weather situation!.

So here, the Allies would get a better, more likely correct prognostication, and the German's would be more likely to get a less reliable weather prediction result. So for game purpose's, let's say that the Allied Meteorologist's would get a 90% prediction of clear-sunny invasion weather and the German's at the same time would get a 75% prediction of clear-sunny weather and a 25% prediction of Stormy/Windy or unfavourable invasion weather!. This way, both sides would get different weather forecast results, and would then tailor their preparation's accordingly!.

Let's say that the Allies get the 90% prediction for clear-sunny sky's [Great Invasion Weather], but the probabilities formula then delivers them...instead a Stormy/Windy day, then the Allied Invasion Force would take a hit both in their ability to direct the Amphibious Forces to their designated Landing Zones [Might have then a reduced amount of landing resources being able to actually disembark], as well as higher Disembarkation Losses!.

[ November 06, 2006, 07:02 PM: Message edited by: Retributar ]

[n0kn0k]

Germans had Weatherboats and U-boats at sea doing the same thing.

[hellraiser]

Sealion shouldn't be a problem unless you tried to defend heavily Egypt as well. UK will lose either the isle or Egypt - no way she can hold both of them.

Obviously holding the isle has greater benefits - the D-Day can be supported with air - very important - and a landing in France threatens the key Axis objectives: Berlin, Munich.

Abandoning the isle and focusing on Egypt may be dangerous since Axis will 100% go for Spain (either via diplomacy or war) so Gibraltar will fall sooner or later - then, the british resources in the Med will suffer from Gibraltar effect which is very very annoying. Surely, the UK can capture Syria and Iraq - good cash, and it doesn't upset the majors but it may prove risky in the long run.

Against a Sealion, the defence is not that complicated. Use the bomber as spotter, set your air to 'ground' so you don't lose cash from unnecessary intercept missions. keep the RN close and use it to block potential landing sites - if he attacks your ships with air, that's good for you - he takes back damage and wastes airstrikes on irrelevant targets. Build the full complement of corps (not that hard), have them protect landing sites and some of them entrenched in the mountains near Manchester. VERY important - ALWAYS keep a battleship in the Chatham port! Even if London falls, the port remains allied controlled with a BB inside and he cannot ferry troops via regular transports. He will have to waste additional turns to destroy the BB in port - you just replace the damaged BB with another fresh one, if possible. If autumn or even winter kicks in, Axis will waste a lot more turns or even get defeated. Even if they capture the isle at this stage, it shouldn't matter much now - both majors' readiness percentage should be pretty high thus their production boosted significantly - very dark times for Axis

[vector]

thanks hellraiser I did not think to keep my BB there because they take massive damage from land to port. Not sure I would have enough money to rebuild a BB after 4X air attacks AND a land attack but worth considering.

[Minty]

Don't worry about rebuiding the ships at this stage Vector. His Majesty's Royal Navy is there to protect blighty and if half of it sinks then it is just doing it's job. Trick is to make the Russians angry while the nazis are wasting time in the UK ... then the real fun begins