Liam Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 Reading through Hubert's breakdown. I'm fairly pleased with some of the new features implemented in this version of SC. The movement dynamics remind me much of Civ3, and the Tile Warfare will be easy for anyone that has experience in that game to adapt here. So are the various penalties and unit Composition. If you haven't tried it I suggest Sid's game. It gets boring but the first 30-40 hours are addictive against the AI<the only oponent available> The quality of the map has improved vastly in areas, especially North Africa. At least now, Rommel can actually break out The various options with the Units, to allow for one to keep Experience is nice..Weather effects are nice, that is much better! There is a reason to plan for Winter now, and for the Allies conversly for a clear day to plan D-Day. I can see where 1 or 2 turns of bad weather could change the course of the Game as it did History as well. The Transport-Amphibious capabilities of units is a nice adjustment. I am much more please with Hubert's move here and in particular taking my advice<maybe> after all the debate me and John and the others had on that topic. Each Turn exhausts supply! So you cannot just use Transports as floating Duds. I do hope that Fighters are more realistic, less Monsters and that Armor has more the Spearhead power of the Blitzkrieg. Even if it doesn't the ability to edit will allow us all to make base Fall Weiss into a Powerful and capable scenario... I'm also EXTREMELY pleased with the possibility of creating a Pacific Front! This is going to rock, we're going to create Double Scenarios<the diehards anyways> At first it doesn't seem like a nice additive, if it took away from the European Theatre, though if one of us works hard enough on a Pac Theatre who knows what we will come up with. I would love to see an Axis with the option to trigger Pearl instead of the usual USA entry. Also new possibilities with Pearl hammering the US Carriers<more of the US Fleet> a percentage chance with execution of this operation. If the US would've lost her Carriers and more of her fleet then the War could've been stalled in that Theatre for another couple of years! Then vamping out US Resources to the other Region. It would be a sideshow, perhaps PBEM Pac, and IP ET...Sucking the Reds-US-UK from resources in that region and trying some 'whacky' possiblities. Though IF Japan falls early due to foolishness, that could effect the outcome elsewhere! Much fun, I hope HC finishes this before Christmas! My Girlfriend won't let me buy it I go much past that. Women! I'm going to have to do some Major Arse Kissing! Oh well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 Oh yes Liam the possibilities are "mind boggling" making for the eternal gameplay variation. Just imagine those uber Airfleets grounded turn after turn with storms and overcast weather and your opponent didn't build adequate ground forces, kind of like what happen in Wacht Em Rhein(B of . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
it's Les Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 The only real option I want from SC2 is the ability to say "sorry I don't need your idea of a grand strategy wargame, I have SC2 already". There are limits to how many flavours of orange any one person needs. Some games are not apples vs oranges arguments. Some arguments are one brand of orange vs another brand of orange. Eventually wargame makers will get this notion through their heads, or they will suffer the same fate all our glutted hobbies teach those that think you can produce an infinite variety of versions of the same damn thing. I have seen the comic book glut kill off their own market. I have seen the trading card game glut, where everyone and their aunt had their idea on the shelf. And I have seen store after store fold after card companies collapsed under the weight of too much of too little variety. I am seeing the paper and pencil RPG glut, and its time will shortly arrive. I can hardly wait for the RTS glut to kill off a lot of the stupid fool companies that think you can do the same thing forever and get away with it. I look forward to HC gaining dominance in the realm of global grand strategy. He's earned it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 Your premonition of dominance is right on Les. This(SC2) will be perhaps the epitome of this scale and there will be tweaks as we know HC will fine tune his masterpiece as our gameplay suggestions conspire to achieve perfection. Take your time HC, enjoy your journey to eminence, for SC2 will surely hale you as "Master" of strategic wargaming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
it's Les Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 We see it all the time, company A gets there first and everyone else can just suck on it eh. Everyone will just end up free advertising by being "compared to SC". How many times have you seen games held up to the light and being compared to the game that got it right first. I think SC is the first computer grand strategy game that scored the right balance of ease of use, ease of play, ability to be modified, and certainly aced price tag. If asked what I felt was wrong with the game, all I can think of is subs are not worth having and Ireland is a place of no return. Not bad, when you consider the long list of rants you can often field for numerous other wargames out there past and present. SC2 promises to simply raise the bar so damn friggin high for competition it will likely dominate the field for the next several years while the computer gaming industry tries to re invent a wheel suitable enough for anyone to actually care about. Right now, the only way to beat SC, if you ask me, is to provide an AI for a game that can actually make me feel hopelessly outclassed. Until then, no graphical element will mean anything to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John DiFool the 2nd Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 Well, competition would include (if this thread gets locked you can blame me): HoI 2: Well, I didn't care for #1, I know Les hated it-overall I just think there's too much micro- management, and the province movement isn't what many people want in a GS WWII game. [i know I prefer square/hex movement] Grigsby's thing: Has some nice diplomatic options and all but may be too "lite" to interest the grognard... Computer WiF: Vaporware. I know there are plenty of defenders of HoI but I think SC2's combination of playability with depth, reasonable historical accuracy, as well as almost endless moddability will make it the winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
it's Les Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 Micromanagement, nothing is more potentially deadly to a wargame. Micromanagment is rarely understood by the AI if several years of observations is any indication. The more you expect the AI to do, the less likely whatever it does will make any sense. Then the human element. Most people expect to be paid for doing anything that looks like work. A game should be so relaxing it is considered fun above all else. I have a few games that are clearly not easy based solely on the complexity level of the turn to turn detail load required. It's a rare game, where the detail load simply won't matter to the gamer. Producing a great game that is also VERY easy to run, is a great deal more likely to make your name (the designer of said game) a household name to the relevant gaming community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vveedd Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 Originally posted by John DiFool the 2nd: Grigsby's thing: Has some nice diplomatic options and all but may be too "lite" to interest the grognard... Maybe I am wrong but GGWAW will not have any diplomatic options. Actually, I am sure and that's why I am not too happy about this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 vveedd, you are correct, no diplomacy. You said it best Les, complication is the death nail for an AI....so much for HoI2, but I have been following its creation. The other problem with HoI...no PBEM, my biggest problem with HttR. So as has been stated....no real competition...none on the horizon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted November 8, 2004 Author Share Posted November 8, 2004 Bahhh, HOI lacked what makes a wargame good. Look at it, do you even know whether or not you won a battle? Only by a white flag and the enemy marching away? All the detail never met anywhere and made anything interesting.. Micromanagement can be smoothlined into something that can move but that never happened, bad recipe... The System for HOI was too much like EU2 and it completely flopped and that's why noone liked it. Not even EU2 Fans. Victoria was the same way.. That actually had some potential if someone would've revamped the game in EU3 extended timeplay. The problem is they couldn't build a "Bigger and Better," Vessel. They could only build a Warp 5 Starship. SC is a basic Ship herself, she's just got a lot of creativity and takes from some very successful titles herself and intregates them into IP play and in it's own way it's pretty original. Noone else is designing Strategy Wargames right now of WW2 worth buying.. HOI is not strategic as much as it is a copycat of it's predeccessor, all my EU2 buds say 1 hit wonder, EU2 is the only paradox game to buy.. SC and SC2? hmmm... we'll see, Civilization III for me was a success, but a failure as an IP game. So in the end SC still sits in my harddrive and Civ3 the coveted was sold off 6 months ago Now if there were more detailed games that kept their intregity<like say CIV3 and yet had detail like it had done with IP> I'd jump on 'em.. You guys who are dying for a super simple title they already released them... 3 or 4 late 80s and early 90s Hex Wargames<No reason to change> and I think SC 2 will push away a lot of the old fanbase but include a lot of new fellows too P.S. Detail is not your enemy it's boring DETAIL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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