American Generals

[J P Wagner]

I know this has been mentioned many times before, but if Headquarter units could stack, that would reduce the clutter on the map...besides, it makes sense that some stacking ability should be included in the game, Headquarters, Rockets, and Air Units being the three primary candidates...

[SeaMonkey]

But Lars, what are those requirements? Furthermore the rise of the theater commander would only take place after you have a certain number of Hqs on the map, maybe 3 minimum, depending on the nation, perhaps 4 for Germany.

And who's to say that just because the commander has a high rating to begin with, he would be an able theater commander, a different(randomized) rating, maybe tied to some tech levels, in say Intelligence?

Makes sense JPW, but you know, "sensible" items don't always make it to the game.

[Edwin P.]

Another option, based on the the current programming (like the intercept/no intercept commands for Air Fleets and run silent option for submarines) would be to give HQ units access to 2 command states: Army Group Commander or Theater Commander.

When operating as a Theater Commander it could only support HQ units according to its Theater Commander Rating. When operating as a Army Group Commander it could only support Ground Units and Air Units.

And who's to say that just because the commander has a high rating to begin with, he would be an able theater commander, a different(randomized) rating, maybe tied to some tech levels, in say Intelligence?

I agree. Some Generals are good at directing and leading combat troops while others are better at administration and logistics - see JerseyJohn's earlier post.

In my view Patton while a great field commander probably would have made a poor theater commander.

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Another idea, is to allow players to promote a HQ unit to a Theater commander; perhaps with a randomized Theater commander rating, as SeaMonkey suggests.

Who knows, Patton might have made a great theater commander or been awful at the job.

The more experience (ie medals) a HQ unit has the better chance it has to be a superior Theater commander. Of course, specific Generals like Eisenhower should have a fixed rating due to their prewar experience.

So, Eisenhower might have a fixed Theater command rating while that for Patton and Bradley would be randomly determined.

Example: Randomized Patton Theater Command Rating

0 Medals - 50% Poor, 40% Average, 10% Good

1 Medals - 25% Poor, 50% Average, 25% Good

2 Medals - 15% Poor, 50% Average, 35% Good

3 Medals - 05% Poor, 45% Average, 50% Good

4 Medals - 00% Poor, 20% Average, 80% Good

Futhermore, once promoted they can't return to being an Army Group Commander. If you want to replace them the unit must be disbanded.

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[ May 25, 2005, 10:38 AM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[Lars]

Originally posted by SeaMonkey:

But Lars, what are those requirements?

Who cares? After the first couple of games we'll have all figured it out and it'll be a one trick pony.

Like I said, if you really want a Theater Commander, the way to do it is to add a new unit to the game. Don't know if it's worth it really.

On a side note, if Theater Commanders are a worthwhile unit to add, they'll be rather uber, won't they? Otherwise, why bother adding it. Could throw the game out of wack when a player passes up his drive on Moscow to go destroy a spotted one. Or it will just attract Air Fleets like flies when playing the AI. And where are the Brits and Americans going to hide theirs? No depth on that side of the map.

[Edwin P.]

Theater Commanders will not be so easily targeted if their range is 20 tiles. This would be reasonable as they represent a greater priority in supplies dedicated to selected Army Groups units - ie HQ Units.

Of course, if you designate a HQ unit a theater commander they are not available to directly support combat units in battle. A most interesting balance.

[Lars]

Great. Where you going to put one in the UK? One German bomber unit and he's spotted.

Where you going to put him in the Med? A problem for both sides. Even easier for a Carrier sailing around to pick him up.

And once spotted, he's dead meat. Just watch every thing with the range to hit him come pouring into the theater.

[Edwin P.]

What if its range is unlimited? or increased?

And if every unit comes looking for him it means that other areas are left undefended.

But as you suggest, its an idea that needs playtesting.

[Lars]

Range unlimited would work. But you might see every Allied TC sitting in the US or Canada.

But how about this instead. Lose the idea of a unit and give the capability to the Capital city instead. First time it gets knocked down to zero strength, you lose the bonus. Or have the bonus proportionate to the strength of the Capital.

Makes the Battle of Britain almost a certainty. And it would keep people from doing the rather gamey tactic of leaving a country's Capital ungarrisoned. Or at least, make them think about the risk more.

Or perhaps a MPP purchase to upgrade the Capital to give the bonus? Call it the Pentagon option. Even sneakier if the other player can't tell whether you purchased one or not. Lots of other ways to do this.

[Edwin P.]

Good original idea.

I really like the idea of your opposing side not knowing if you have a Theater commander (unit or city) or not, though in real life I think that they would probably know.

What if you can spot opposing theater commanders (or their city) at Intelligence Level 2 or higher. And at Intelligence level 3 or higher you can spot the HQ units that they support.

[jon_j_rambo]

How about tactical leaders on invididual units?

[Lars]

Originally posted by Edwin P.:

Good original idea.

I really like the idea of your opposing side not knowing if you have a Theater commander (unit or city) or not, though in real life I think that they would probably know.

What if you can spot opposing theater commanders (or their city) at Intelligence Level 2 or higher. And at Intelligence level 3 or higher you can spot the HQ units that they support.

Could have a star icon pop up by the Capital. Throw a little randomness in there for the spotting and it might work. Linking it to Intel is a good one. Then again, you might get away with folding the whole thing into the Intel Tech or one of the others. Ain't game design fun?

I like the idea, I'm just not sure having a unit for it works in this game, unless the map is much bigger. Would be perfect for a game like Operational Art of War on a grand scale. Seems people just insist on having something to move around though. And it's got to have a "Name" like Eisenhower or Rommel. Never mind that if you surround either one with idjit staff, they wouldn't have amounted to squat.

[Lars]

Originally posted by jon_j_rambo:

How about tactical leaders on invididual units?

Yep, gotta have a name.

Think that's already reflected in the experience rating. Although perhaps one more line on the unit saying the commander might be nice chrome. But for me, a level 2, ten strength tank unit with 3 experience badges is all the info I really need.

[Desert Dave]

As originally posted by Lars:

Great. Where you going to put one in the UK? One German bomber unit and he's spotted.

Spotting for Bombers (... now supposed as Strategic and Naval) is only 5 tiles out. Range is 8, so essentially you could bomb that distant target, say a Capital... BUT you wouldn't necessarily know dispositions of any interceptors.

Air Fleets is only 3.

FOW takes on a whole new meaning in SC-2 Blitzkrieg!

What you'll have to do, since there is a limit to how many bombers you might purchase (... though, you could exceed that number @ a premium price)

Is mostly do it the old-fashioned way... RECON.

(... and/or invest in long-range research, post haste! )

You'll likely have a spare L-0 tank, OR a Corps that has been L-2 Motorized specifically for this thankless task, and so you'll "probe" into enemy territory to see what's back there.

Let's hope you don't run into a couple full tilt L-2 anti-tank units just waiting, nay - praying for the chance to make a cauldron of melting, smoking metal. :eek:

As for the other, doubt very much you'll see any "theatre" or "tactical" commanders.

SOME detail is fine & sublime.

Too much detail... merely devours your time.

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One great advantage to limiting the spotting of bombers in this way... no longer can the UK player place a bomber in far northern England or Scotland and be able to see EVERY SINGLE ship and sub that travels 'round into the Atlantic.

Now, the UK player will need some fairly constant "picket" of ships if he wants to intercept those GErman sorties.

Of course, then he must worry whether there will be SUDDEN! storms, which may damage his ships. :eek:

Yep, it's gonna be real different in this game than it was in last one.

[ May 26, 2005, 07:33 AM: Message edited by: Desert Dave ]

[jon_j_rambo]

Lets get the Memphis Belle airborne. How about Col. Robert Hogan, Carter & Kinchlowe too?