low tech and hi tech unit availablity

[Titan]

One thing i would like to know would be once a unit ,say for example Inf or armour gets upgraded to another Tech Level i understand the cost to purchase would go up.Would one still be able to purchase forces with the lower tech level?.In my opinion it would be nice since it would kinda be like second line troops which could be left to guard rear area's as opossed to buying the latest inf unit just to have it sit,lets say on a nuetral turkish boarder if you are soviets.

[Fireball]

I strongly support this point/idea because if we think abouzt new techs like the me 262; germany could have never efforded it to chancel the whole production of me 109 fw 190 etc just because a new plane, that was better, has arrived.

[Titan]

Thats my point,it would enable you to balance your army alot better with numbers and quality.And yes,the Germans never had just panthers,they did use some obsolete PZ11's right up until the end of the war in some cases,extreme example.

[pzgndr]

Yes, you will be able to customize any new purchases and upgrades with whatever tech is available, including old tech. For example, you may have L3 Infantry Weapons, L2 Anti-tank, and L2 Motorization, but you could still build L0 tech garrison units to entrench over time while slowly upgrading them as desired.

[Retributar]

There should be Upgrading but only to a limited degree. like replacing a tank barrel on a tank from whatever to whatever for example.

When you have New-Technology as in a new line of Tanks... generally most everything is Upgraded...or Replaced or replacing the Older Variant with an entirely New-Line or model of Tank.

This may include heavier armour thickness...heavier more powerful engines,better-larger tank barrel for higher velocity and greater range ...wider tank tracks to better support the heavier weight...which also results in decreased speed.

So i personally disagree with upgrading an existing tank-type into an entirely new tank type as this Never really happened.

What did happen was that an older variant could be upgraded to a limited degree with the new advancements...new barrel, skirts,etc...but,you would not for example be able to take a Pzkpfwagen IV and convert it into a Tiger-I.

[pzgndr]

So i personally disagree with upgrading an existing tank-type into an entirely new tank type as this Never really happened.

Ahem, this is a grand strategy level game with Corps and Army-size units. "Upgrade" here refers to unit TO&E changes, including all sorts of doctrinal changes, personnel strength changes, equipment modifications, or swapping out equipment from model X to model Y. Whatever. The game is abstract, and upgrade means only that there is a certain MPP cost to acquiring new benefits. "How" that may actually be implemented in practice is left to the player's imagination.

[ November 22, 2004, 04:47 PM: Message edited by: pzgndr ]

[Retributar]

No!!!...incorreCt statement...what you say is a 'Non-Sequiter'...it is you who may have the headache!.

This game looks like it may be reverting to a certain level of Bull-****!!!...pardon my ENGLISH!.

[Retributar]

Level of B.S....for example the Germans only built 500 King Tigers...and for much else of their first line equipment...the numbers were equally limited.

So you cant in the game...just upgrade to King Tigers...then have 3000 - 5000 King Tiger Tanks in your armoured divisions...just because you upgraded!.

[Edwin P.]

Look at it this way. If you upgrade all of your Armor to Tanks Level 5 - The Tiger Tank - you probably have very few armor units or you will have no MPPs left to replace losses to your infantry, air or naval units.

Decisions, decisions, decsions. As a related question; do I build 500 B1-B Bombers or do I pay the salary of the men in my army? Sure you can do it but what government would?

[Fireball]

I also think that the system as pzgndr described it, will work just fine. Like he said, it is Corps/Army size (with my custom europe map perhaps Division/Corps but...) and there i think it is ok to handle that on an abstract level and think about that: If Germany would have concentrated all its ressources to King Tiger, yes, than Germany would have had thousands of them. Thousands that would have been bombed to trash by the enemy because Germany would have had no ressources left to build enough planes, AA guns etc. And also the sub war and the huge number of INF DIV. would not have been possible to supply and equip.

[Edwin P.]

Good point Fireball. Could not have said it better.

[pzgndr]

Decisions, decisions, decisions.

Yup. It's all about making high level grand strategy decisions in this game. Keep it simple, keep it fast, and keep it fun. If players want to get down into the weeds and micromanage complex details, well there are "other" games available for that sort of thing. Strategic Command has proven itself to be an enjoyable and playable game, unlike some others, and SC2 will build upon that success. :cool:

[Lars]

King Tiger tank.

Great tank, terrible strategic decision. Should have cranked out nothing but upgunned PzIV's

You sure you want to do that?

[hellraiser]

yeah, keep the game abstract - less micromanagement increase the fun-factor - you ppl want 1h30mins turns so u can replace all damaged tracks of every Panzer unit in the game? God forbid ...

ppl don't take SC2 for Panzer General, FFS

PG was cool, SC is cool but it is something else.

[Retributar]

cosmin why, such an extreme untruthful reply? That is NOT!!! at all what i inferred or meant, are you so easily swayed into such misunderstanding?.

When a unit is an older variant...you simply remove it from the front line...upgrade it a bit if you like...and now put your newer units in place of where the older ones were.

I was just disagreeing with changing an apple into an orange...nothing else!...maybe this analogy will be easier to understand for you!.

[hellraiser]

i am entitled to have an opinion over this matter ... as you are as well ... if you consider me stupid for stating my point of view or suggesting i did not understand what you meant, it's your pb as i don't give a f*ck.

Maybe i was a little off-topic with my reply and it wasn't necessarilly directed to your post.

I wouldn't like the micromanagement to take over SC2, so i write here and there in the SC2 thread to state my point that the game should be left as simpler as it can be, to be fast-paced and funny.

And i feel so ashamed to not fully comprehend your subtleties ... wha'e'va

peace brother

[Desert Dave]

As originally posted by Lars:

King Tiger tank.

Great tank, terrible strategic decision. Should have cranked out nothing but upgunned PzIV's

Bulky and disdainful of ANY other TD, but an awful clanky tank that hardly could go even 5 piddling kilometers without hoving over into the ditch. The crew required a factory trained mechanic - outfit in rakish beret and silk scarf, riding right along.

Otherwise, I agree... better gunned PzIV's would have, finally, ruled all of the Steppes, and very probably most of France '44 as well.

Kind of like... a caged Panther, only... the iron-clad door has been left... slighty ajar. :eek:

__________________________

For all of those worrying over a LOT of extra playing time with this new SC2-Blitzkrieg... well, forget it.

Mostly you will only need to learn the many new features and techniques and then... maintain a larger picture or schematic "in your mind."

The actual game-play should NOT be very much longer per turn.

First game or two?

Sure, you'll futz & frazzle around a little bit, but soon enough you'll be racing 'round the track as though you were driving a Willy's jeep that has had a quad-carb'd 440 Chrysler Hemi engine bolted in! Whee! :cool:

[majama]

By me should be possible partly upgrade even to neutral countries if they join war