katukov strikes back weird question

[second amendment]

grrrr

spoiler alert {kind of}

I tried this scenario out last nite as the russians and got hammered by the computer, so tonite i decided to try it as the germans to see how it is from the other side.

Well I set up the game using the stick to scenario default for the compuuter player and fired up the game. I left the german units right where the computer set them up and all was fine till about turn three.

I had 3 panzers set up to the left of the road and 2 more on the right when. One russian tank starts coming down the road and several more come out of the trees to the right of the road.

As the tanks start to engage each other suddenly the tanks on the left side of the road start taking hits from russian tanks that have come out of the trees behind them. So if I set up the game using the scenario defaults how were the russians allowed to set up bihind the germans??? what am I missing here?

[WWB]

Originally posted by second amendment:

grrrr

spoiler alert {kind of}

I tried this scenario out last nite as the russians and got hammered by the computer, so tonite i decided to try it as the germans to see how it is from the other side.

Well I set up the game using the stick to scenario default for the compuuter player and fired up the game. I left the german units right where the computer set them up and all was fine till about turn three.

I had 3 panzers set up to the left of the road and 2 more on the right when. One russian tank starts coming down the road and several more come out of the trees to the right of the road.

As the tanks start to engage each other suddenly the tanks on the left side of the road start taking hits from russian tanks that have come out of the trees behind them. So if I set up the game using the scenario defaults how were the russians allowed to set up bihind the germans??? what am I missing here?

Because they did come in from several directions. I take it you hung around the top of the hill, which is not entirely intelligent.

WWB

[Alkiviadis]

************** SPOILER ALERT!!

I suggest you do a little more terrain analysis before commencing play.

Look at the gully to the east, also the clump of trees near the 1st objective flag - cover, concealment from long range AT. The 1st rule is: if it can be seen, it can be killed.

I confess I was familar with this battle, having studied it, and knew what the germans might have.

I had no problem pulling a major victory as Katukov With EFOW and a +1 experiance level for the germans as my 1st game of CMBB.

[second amendment]

wwb_99

No I didnt hang around the top of the hill.

[WWB]

Originally posted by second amendment:

wwb_99

No I didnt hang around the top of the hill.

Sounds like you did from the descriptions. Those T34s came out where they were supposed to, the reason it is reccomended to play as the germans is that you need to pull of a fighting withdrawl to win. Standing and fighting will cost you those tanks easy.

WWB

[second amendment]

You aint kidding

I didnt realize until today when i played it from the soviet side again that the russians also get to attack from the left most woods bihind the german tanks guarding the highway on the left. Oops...now I have a much better take on things.

btw anyone know of a good online source for info on eastern front battles

[Renaud]

SPOILER ALERT ********************

*

*

*

*

*

*

*

*

*

*

*

*

First turn: I moved all my tanks into concealed positions on the slope immediately behind the copse near the forward small flag, next to the road up the hill. I rushed 1 engineer and infantry platoon up the road and then into the same copse. I set up a far left (far left as the setup will allow) strongpoint with 105mm and lmg's.

Moving all the infantry and tanks up to the copse really did the job on the ruskies...although with the excellent 88mm guns back there you hardly need them except as a distraction and to button the ruskies. Compared to many of the scenarios, which are actually quite tough vs AI even with default settings, I thought this one was a bit too easy. The accounts I have read of this engagement make it seem much more hair-raising for the germans. Really nice map though.

Ren

[Thin Red Line]

But as the germans against a human, it is waaayyy more difficult as the briefing states.

****SPOILER****

I pulled off all my tanks as advised on turn 1 it was really beautiful to see the panzer retreating at full speed in the steppe with the turret facing backwards (thank to the cover arc+ fast command). One of them didn't manage to escape its russian hunters though.

[xerxes]

I played this one as the German defender against a real player. Not easy at all. I reversed my forward tanks and that saved all but one of them.

The 88s fell to concentrated HE fire fairly quickly. I desparately used smoke to try and shield the 88s so they would only have to take on one battlegroup at a time.

In the end the only thing that saved me was time running out and my opponent not realizing how badly he had hurt me.

[Thin Red Line]

****SPOILER**** RUSSIAN PLAYER DON'T READ

Yes, i've a pretty similar experience in PBEM. Every gun opening fire is quickly silenced by the overhelming number of armored targets...

With some luck the 105mm gun can destroy a T34 at 200/300m, but not much more. They must be positioned carefully during the set-up, and i would not recommend the 105mm guns default set-up (but to be honest i didn't try it). Many russian human players won't attack frontally anyway.

But the infantry fought well, taking a couple of tanks lost in the trees near the river bed.

I think the short turn limit is the only chance of the Germans in H2H play.

[WWB]

A few designer's notes here:

Actually, those 105s are pretty nastily sited by default. They get about 250m of LOS IIRC. In testing I usually took out the bulk of the T34s with the 105s.

The 88 at the bottom is in a similiar position, dont fire until you can see the whites of their eyes.

And yes, withdrawing the panzers on the hill is the "correct" way of going about it. If you can pull 1 or 2 back to the bridge you can hold it without too much trouble.

And don't forget about your grendiers as the german.

Also, it really was designed for German vs AI play, so I am not suprised that it is a bit tough for one side vs. a human.

WWB