ME - Advancing to contact?

[markshot]

I am fighting a meeting engagement as the Axis against the AI. The VL's are primarily on the AI's side of the map along with good defensible terrain.

I have a combined arms force of: infantry, a couple of tanks, a couple of TDs, a couple of armored cars, and a couple of half tracks.

Now, my question is kind of general as it applies to many meeting engagements.

Prior to making contact:

On one hand, I want to advance as quickly as possible, since I want to allow the maximum clock time available for the actual battle and I want to minimize the amount of territory that I need to fight for as casualities would seem proportional the amount of contested ground through which I must advance.

On the other hand, I want to advance slow and cautiously so as not loose too much of my force in a blundering ambush.

So, how I can I reconcile these two seemingly inconsistant goals? Is there a way to advance rapidly to contact in a relatively cautious manner?

My thoughts:

I realize that infantry should lead my armor to guard against zook attacks and serve as spotters for TD, tanks, and gun emplacements. If so, does that mean that my armor can advance no faster than a walking pace?

I also understand the concept of bounding overwatch, but if apply this to my armored units, then I risk loosing the leading element upon initial enemy contact. Thus,I am risking loosing a high valued asset. Is this the way to move? Should infantry ride the vehicles so that they are ready to deploy and establish a zook free perimeter as soon as contact is made?

Another possibly strategy would be to use a low valued mechanized asset such as an armored car to scout ahead. With this approach, I am hoping that it may either spot the enemy or be sacrificed; in either case, indicating the safest point forward to advance to. Is this the correct approach?

---

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

[ 09-05-2001: Message edited by: markshot ]

[CrapGame]

Rule No. 1 - Never lead with your armor. It will end up dead. Quick.

Rule No. 2 - Bounding overwatch works, but have an infantry screen ahead, 1/2 squads will suffice

Rule No. 3 - Any time you have your armor in front of your infantry, see Rule No. 1

[MoatnGator]

I will add to that if you use a scout vehicle, than the enemy knows you are on the way in. Scouting with infantry is the way and can be useful. make sure you have a good leader with them. 1/2 squads are the way to go.

Your infantry can run...so tanks can move as fast as the running infantry. This is plenty fast. If you want the tanks to move faster have them move along covered and concealed routes with infantry on the back. When you feel that you have pushed your luck, dismount and move on out!

[Redwolf]

If you are too slow, you will effectivly attack (modulo foxholes), so you can't just do that out of caution, it will cause more losses in the end.

As so often, it is a question of terrain.

Usually, one of the players will be able to bring heavy firepower to the flags without exposing the firepower units too much. Maybe both. Maybe both think so, but one is wrong, either for the firepower or the not-exposing part.

So, you must try to seize the flags soon, but always, really always make sure you have the required firepower in reach of your infantry's threats and without exposing vehicles too much.

If you cannot cover the flag areas with firepower, you should reject the map in setup, unless you have alternatives.

Alternatives might be:

- you don't go after the flags, but strike against opponent's vehicles or other vulnerable high-point targets

- you overrun small parts of his force (i.e. at isolated flags) with your full force, one after another

- You have heavy artillery (difficult to achive victory at usual costs, though)

- You have other factors in your favour, like streets to the flags that the opponent doesn't have

[ 09-06-2001: Message edited by: redwolf ]

[BigZergRat]

very good advice redwolf.

i only disagree with the rejecting the map as i prefer not to reject any map. even if my terrain the worst imagineable i'll try it just to see what i can make of a worst case scenario. a few times i've even managed to impress myself and learn a few tricks along the way.

[Priest]

All things being equal, lets discuss what we can discuss.

Terrain is going to change. That does not mean it is not very very important but for the issue of discussion lets all agree that terrain is important but a moot factor in this discussion because anything we say good or bad will be effected by terrain.

This leaves unit diposition. When I look at a unit I see 5 things no matter the make up of the unit.

1.) a recce-screening element

2.) an AT element

3.) an assault element

4.) an artillery element

5.) a reserve force

#1 can be any unit or units that you deem as your screening element. Their intent now though is to screen and recon the area. Half-squads and light AFVs do well in this role obviously.

#2 are obviously AT minded tanks and TDs not to mention ATGs and personal AT weapons (shrecks, PIATS, zooks, etc. etc.).

#3 Usually the majority of your infantry and support oriented AFV's.

#4 FOs and onboard mortars. Important note, forming your onboard mortars into a battary with a spare HQ can be quite devestating and I count them in my artillery group.

#5 self explanatory.

The original post stated the following force:

Infantry (we will assume a COY for arguements sake)

Two tanks

Two TDs

Two AC's

Two HTs

No mention of artillery.

Now this is hard because i do not know the side or unit composition so I will make one up.

1 COY British infantry

2 Sherman V's

2 M10 Wolverines

2 Dailmer AC's

2 M5a1 HT's

okay with this force I would do the following:

Recce Screening force:

1 platoon with all squads split. The platoon co would move to a rally point to recombine the unit at a later time. Attached to this unit would be the two dailmers. This unit would use a maximum spread formation 350m+ ahead of the main force witht he Dailmers trailing no less than 50m and no more than 100m. The spread would allow that spotted units not be on a straight course for the flags.

AT Force:

Both M10's would sit on overwatch preferably with a hull down position with interlocking fields of fire down 1 or 2 avenues of enemy armor approach. After decisive engagement the M10's could then manuever for kills.

Assault force:

The remaining infantry and the two Sherman V's. Note that the Piats would stay with this group including the PIAT team from the recce group.

Artillery Force:

With the absence of FOs I would form the three 2-inch mortar guns into a battary under the command of the COY Co.

Reserve Force:

The two HTs. Yep that is right, in a protracted fire fight of this scale some mgs in a nimble carrier could really contribute if committed late in the battle. If possible I would consider the reformed Recce group my reserve. The force size is small in this setup so this is the best I could hope for, not to mention that the recce force could be engaged first and not able to disengage throughout the battle.

That is my view.

DISCLAIMER: After observing and reading and playing FIONN I in effect converted to this system, it is no way my own or even derived by me for application to CMBO. Thanks FIONN!

[ 09-06-2001: Message edited by: Priest ]

[Redwolf]

Whether you reject the map or not of course depends on how much win chance you want to trade for challenge or fun.

While a map that prevents you from the usualy attacking style which I outlined will almost certainly lower your win chance substancially, it may very well offer the same or more fun and likely more challenge.

Also, in the usual game you only have one or two map rejects and then have to live with it, so it is certainly useful to practice the non-usualy approach even if you are mostly concerned about winning.

[ 09-06-2001: Message edited by: redwolf ]