bring down the roof! Blowing up buildings with Guns

[Chad Harrison]

last night i was playing a QB ME TCP where we were battling it out in a city. since i am a gamey bastage, i brought along two german 75mm INF guns. since i didnt have a transport, i walked those suckers into a good position in town. when i spotted his units, i would order them to 'area fire' into the building until it rubbled. the question is not whether or not that is gamey.

what i wonder is how the computer determines how many casulties the men inside take? someone out there has to know what factors into this.

IMO, i have noticed that the following play into it:

<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>what floor your on

<LI>the caliber of the gun

<LI>where in the building they are (opposite side of incoming fire)

<LI>and whether or not they are broken/routed at the time

are there any definite answers from someone?

[Sergeant Saunders]

I would be very interested in the answers to this, too. I have discovered recently that people tend to blow up buildings. I didn't see that a lot with the AI. I have learned that putting FO's in good tall buildings works great against the AI, they just disapear on turn 1 or 2 against real people.

Chad - hold those mgs in position in that building in our game and I will test.

Tim

[gredeker]

I'm sure some grog will jump in with a link to an old thread on this subject, but here goes...

CM internally tracks fire resolution/location down to the meter. So being on the far side of the building (further away from the blast) will reduce casualties. I also know that units on an upper floor generally take higher casualties when the building goes up. And, though it scarcely need be said, the bigger the blast value of the attacking ordnance, the higher the casualties.

I don't have a lot of evidence to back it up, but my impression is that the large heavy buildings (including the church) cause the greatest casualties when they finally go, and the small light buildings cause the least casualties - and I'm talking just about the damage caused by the building, not the shot that destroyed it (because you can get a lot further away in a church than in a small building).

Hard numbers? I have no idea. I do know that when my troops start bailing out of a building, it's generally for good cause.

Somebody please elaborate with some facts and figures, please.

[Chad Harrison]

ive noticed the same. when light one or two stories buildings go up, it doesnt seem to take out very many of them. but when you get a church to finally give, that a lot of lost soldiers!

now maybe this will help, why does a building blowing up represent? i dont think that it means the building really went up in smoke! i think it represents the building becoming so weak that half of it did collapse or something along those lines.

what do you view it representing?

[gredeker]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>what do you view it representing?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Keeping in mind that it's abstracted, I tend to think that it's the resulting dust cloud from when the building finally collapses. It would make sense then if the large buildings cause more damage - stone and bricks weigh more than 2x4 16" O.C. construction.

[PiggDogg]

In CM, when HE pounds a building until the building explodes, the small tactical nuke that is under all buildings is ignited. This ignition causes the building's destruction and that neat shockwave that is emmitted. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Those nuclear buildings are really cool. :cool:

Cheers, Richard

[Cybeq]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chad Harrison:

last night i was playing a QB ME TCP where we were battling it out in a city. since i am a gamey bastage, i brought along two german 75mm INF guns. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Since when is buying a couple of guns considered gamey!?!?

[Fieldmarshall]

I suppose it could be gamey if they are those guns in the movie that always make sparks but no smoke(just the opposite of REAL guns) and never run out of ammo...and then are given to the un-trained hero who can hit a penny from a 1000 yards with a old rifle, a bent barrel and a crooked iron site...and that never ran out of ammo.

[Thermopylae]

The buildings is suppossedly collapsed, and they just wanted a cool effect for it, anyhow, be happy your troops bail from buildings now..once upon a time they just sat in em until the building dropped on top of em.

[Priest]

Here are some answers:

A.) Blowing up buildings is not gamey by any means. It happened in the war.

b.) "Exploding" buildings do not actually explode but may collapse or a wall fall down or many other things, but as an abastraction they put a "BOOM" graphic in.

c.) Building Rubble is usually better cover then the building itself.

d.) I am not sure about heavy/light building damage but you do take more damage being on the second floor rather than the first.

Hope that helps.

[Krinks]

What about blast effects on nearby troops. There's that big white hemisphere that shows where the blast of the explosions is, but does that or shrapnel have any effect on troops that might be near the explosion, or running from the building?

Just curious about that since some ammo has blast effects too.

[Chad Harrison]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Krinks:

What about blast effects on nearby troops. There's that big white hemisphere that shows where the blast of the explosions is, but does that or shrapnel have any effect on troops that might be near the explosion, or running from the building?

Just curious about that since some ammo has blast effects too.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

as was stated above, the exploding building is from the detonated nuke that lies under the building. yes each building in CM has one placed in the basement.

to answer your question, i have never seen someone take loses when they were next to an exploding building (unless it was close to the exploding ROUNDS blast which caused loses, not the exploding building)

[Patton_71]

I have been shooting up buildings with tanks and guns since this game came out...one of the most common tactical uses for inf guns is to do just that...drop buildings.

I have also noted that when a building is about to collapse, an asterisk (*) or two is pun next to the terrain tpye box when you access your unit, and this seems to mean that the structure has been weakened, and may collapse soon.

By the way, has anyone else found it annoying to not be able to put guns in a building? With enough time, most inf guns and AT gund up to 75mm were often placed in bulidings to control streets and have cover. Any input on that?

[Doug Beman]

If you're building a scenario, you CAN put guns in buildings, but it's awfully tedious to do. You need to place the GUN where you want it on the map, then place a house somewhere close by. If you do it right (and you probably won't on first try) the gun will actually be inside the house. Probably what you have to do is look at the relation between gun and house, then either try to put the house down again, this time on the gun, or else move then gun somewhere else, then re-place the house.

If you fiddle with it long enough, when you look at the map that gun will, in fact, be inside the house. That means the gun is stuck there, as it cannot move through the walls of the house.

DjB

[LT. Homer]

Blast is felt by nearby troops from droping HE on buildings in CM. If I can not get a direct line on a target, I often will "area fire" on a building that I know has some unfriendly units nearby. If it's armor, the tanks will button or sometimes become "shocked". If its infantry, sometimes they panic.

[Moriarty]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Doug Beman:

If you're building a scenario, you CAN put guns in buildings, but it's awfully tedious to do. You need to place the GUN where you want it on the map, then place a house somewhere close by. If you do it right (and you probably won't on first try) the gun will actually be inside the house. Probably what you have to do is look at the relation between gun and house, then either try to put the house down again, this time on the gun, or else move then gun somewhere else, then re-place the house.

If you fiddle with it long enough, when you look at the map that gun will, in fact, be inside the house. That means the gun is stuck there, as it cannot move through the walls of the house.

DjB<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hehe, that evil bastich Berlichtingen once put two quad 20mm flak guns inside two heavy, two-story buildings flanking a bridge that my opponent had to cross to get to the VLs. As I recall, he put a 150mm IG in the third heavy building.

Gamey? Oh, probably, but it was great fun.