Molotov Cocktail Posted August 4, 2002 Share Posted August 4, 2002 Finnish assault guns and tanks with swastika or without in CM:BB? There has been lot of talk about Waffen-SS and Waffen Grenadiere thing and legislation of Bundesrepublik Deutschland. Now I ask is there in CM:BB swastikas on finnish assault guns and tanks or not. Finnish swastika has nothing to do with the german national sosialistic party symbol. (Probably)All finnish CM players now origin of finnish airforce blue swastika. But I don't know origin of finnish armoured vehicles swastika. Finland did not have one party fascist totalitarian regime like Germany, Italy, or example so called Independent State of Croatia (puppet state of Germany), but democratic one. Finland was only western democracy (multi party democracy) on german side.Others were totalitarian fascist or otherwise undemocratic. So swastika on finnish tanks and assault guns has nothing to do with nazis. But I'm afraid because the german CDV is distrubutor for whole western europe, finnish can not play cm:bb with swastika decorated Stugs. And the historical accuracy suffers. Picture of Fnnish stug with swastikas WWW-site about Finnish armoured fighting vehicles Andreas Lärka*s The IPMS Fi-1877 Page! Dedicated to the Finnish Armoured Forces in WWII Maybe buddhist or hindus are not allowed use swastikas on Germany. Why Germans don't example censor Indiana Jones movies there is lot of nazi swastikas, Indy movies are not historical studies. I think Indy movies are good entertaiment but still just entertaiment,like computer games historically accurate or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cos Posted August 4, 2002 Share Posted August 4, 2002 I'd say they most likely will not be on the CDV version (at least) as this is one of the debats over at the IL-2 website. The new exspanion coming this fall will have finish planes and the preview shots shows them without the Finish Cross (remember the proper name for the cross, I know it's now a swastika). Again, if it isn't in CM:BB I'll still buy it. If you wait there will be a mod out for it at some point (same thing is said at the IL-2 site) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prinz Eugen Posted August 4, 2002 Share Posted August 4, 2002 I agree with this. The Finnish swastika did not have any resemblance with the nazi icon. In fact the swastika is still in use in the Finnish Air Forces, at least in the symbol for the Pilot's School (or somefink). Also the swastika was in use before the rise of the Nazi-Germany. Our first ever airplane, that was a donation from the Swedes had a blue swastika painted in. I'm not 100% sure on my facts, so you're allowed to correct me ! Besides, the Finnish swastika in tanks is clearly different from the Nazi one. The arms are shortened, it has a white background, and to my knowledge the swastika wasn't used in German tanks, I believe it was the Maltese cross that was used ? :confused: I agree with Molotov Cocktail with this; I should think there are no grounds to ban the use of the Finnish swastika, despite the slight resemblance. It's an all-Finn symbol, having NOTHING to do with the horror that was the Nazi regime. The German laws being what they are , I'm afraid we aren't allowed to have the Finnish symbol in our tanks. Oh well, I'm sure the modders will get it fixed at some point ! I'm not going to have an issue of this, still, it is a bit sad ! Nice shot, by the way ! That one AFV belonged to a 1st company platoon leader, Ltn. Aulanko. The Ps. 531-6 was later commanded by Alik. Taponen of the same company, of the Assault Gun Battalion. Notice those 9 "kills" on the turret ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted August 4, 2002 Share Posted August 4, 2002 Isn't that the backward S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted August 4, 2002 Share Posted August 4, 2002 This is almost a non-issue, in my opinion. The cross can (and will) be modded back there in no time.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesco Posted August 4, 2002 Share Posted August 4, 2002 I've another question about finnish StuGs in CMBB: will they have an added amour rate for the front in order to simulate that thickness of concrete that finnish stugs (IIIG) had in '44/'45? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted August 4, 2002 Share Posted August 4, 2002 Originally posted by Francesco: I've another question about finnish StuGs in CMBB: will they have an added amour rate...?Do you mean that they get laid more often? Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaker Posted August 4, 2002 Share Posted August 4, 2002 If they don't, the modders can rectify the problem. Many CM'ers can't stand inaccurate insignia, esp. national ones. Political correctness be damned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durbish Posted August 4, 2002 Share Posted August 4, 2002 Originally posted by Michael emrys: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Francesco: I've another question about finnish StuGs in CMBB: will they have an added amour rate...?Do you mean that they get laid more often? Michael</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pud Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 I would go as far to say that any "swastika" that has been removed by CDV will be modded in 48 hours to be available online. This sort of "mod" is extremely easy to do. Everyone should rest easy that visual editing for "Political Correctness" reasons WILL be corrected. Names are different as its coded into the exe file. This is harder to change but not impossible (hopefully). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rat Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 I don' t see any GOOD reason to ban these icons out of the game. As far as I noticed since the day I purchased CMBO, every player is very interested in the war, how it was, the troops, the machinery, but is not affected by the POLITICS behind it. Banning all these things to be deprived for a community that appears to be more then intelligent enough to know where simulation ends and RL begins, where electronics stop and RL politics come in, is in my eyes the most hypocrite and idioteque thing to do. And as been said before, there will be mods banging in faster then the speed of light to correct this ridicilous censorship. People on the boards who make these decisions seem to be sure that they too would suddenly go for Naziïsm by seeing signs on tanks in a WARGAME. Its not because of the fact that these people are completely spineless, that everyone else is too. Im pretty sure that those who embrace the way of thinking that is behind the signs are totally uninterested in a game that resembles the need of skill and common sense instead of the urge to kill off your foreign happy neighbour... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vskalex Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Originally posted by Prinz Eugen: [sNIP]. Our first ever airplane, that was a donation from the Swedes had a blue swastika painted in. I'm not 100% sure on my facts, so you're allowed to correct me ! [sNIP] Quite correct, during the finnish civil war (1918), a Swedish count donated an airplane to the white side. The airplane donned a blue swastika, because that was the count's (von Rosen)lucky charm. After that it was decide that the finnish airforce would use this blue swastika as a national symbol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conscript Bagger Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Originally posted by Rat: I don' t see any GOOD reason to ban these icons out of the game. As far as I noticed since the day I purchased CMBO, every player is very interested in the war, how it was, the troops, the machinery, but is not affected by the POLITICS behind it. Banning all these things to be deprived for a community that appears to be more then intelligent enough to know where simulation ends and RL begins, where electronics stop and RL politics come in, is in my eyes the most hypocrite and idioteque thing to do. And as been said before, there will be mods banging in faster then the speed of light to correct this ridicilous censorship. People on the boards who make these decisions seem to be sure that they too would suddenly go for Naziïsm by seeing signs on tanks in a WARGAME. Its not because of the fact that these people are completely spineless, that everyone else is too. Im pretty sure that those who embrace the way of thinking that is behind the signs are totally uninterested in a game that resembles the need of skill and common sense instead of the urge to kill off your foreign happy neighbour...Do a search for CDV, waffengrenadiers, and lawyers and you will see that BFC has stated clearly and repeatedly the reason for this "ban." Nobody here needs to agree with it (and many don't), but it's been talked to death and, by all indications, isn't going to change. [ August 05, 2002, 11:14 AM: Message edited by: Offwhite ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rat Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 I know it won't ever change...But it doesn't alter the fact that it is hypocrite bull****... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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