Turret Speed in CMBB

[Andreas]

Originally posted by Scipio:

Otherwise we had a real great riddle to solve : why needed the Soviets with help of the Western Allies still more time to push the Wehrmacht back to Berlin than Germany had needed to conquer all the territory - and don't forget the German shortage in raw materials and later in war also in production beacause of the Allied bombarments?

Just a quick comeback to that Scipio, and then I give it a rest. The Russians did not really need that much longer. In September 1944 they had liberated/reoccupied all the territory they had in 1941 minus Kurland. From then on they fought on ground the Germans owned on 22.6.41. If you assume no stalemate, with the Germans marching on until 11/42, and the Red Army from 12/42, it took the Germans 17 months to get to the Caucasus, and the Red Army 22 months to get it all back. Not that much of a difference, especially if you consider that the Germans had one year of training and preparation before their attack and were at the height of their military prowess, while the Red Army started from its nadir.

Regarding production - 1944 was the year with the highest production numbers for war material in Germany.

[WineCape]

Originally posted by Herr Oberst:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by: Gaylord Focker

Is Turret speed on Armor going to be an over empahsised part of battles like it is in CMBO?

Over-emphasized?!?

What kind of half-baked-chicken, giving-you-salmonella statement is that!</font>

[Marlow]

Originally posted by Kilgore:

The combined efforts of the Allies defeated Germany, but the bulk of Germany's military strength was diverted and subsequently defeated in the East

Just one thing to add. While the majority of German ground forces were in the east, the Luftwaffe was largly defeated in the west. During the early phases of the war in the east, German air superiority was an important element in the Army's success. As more planes were withdrawn to defend the homeland, Germany lost their overall air superiority in the east.

[Kilgore]

Good point...

[Gaylord Focker]

Originally posted by Herr Oberst:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by: Gaylord Focker

Is Turret speed on Armor going to be an over empahsised part of battles like it is in CMBO?

Over-emphasized?!?

What kind of half-baked-chicken, giving-you-salmonella statement is that!

Slow turrets are for real.

German training to rotate the hull and turret at the same time to add the rotational speeds were for real.

If you will please take the time to watch period movies, documentaries, read something like Panzertaktik, or even better the Tigerfibel (hope I spelled it correctly), you will see that the Germans were aware of the short comings of the tank, and what the obvious counter-measures to the deficincies (too late to spell properly) were.

Uno First, sending a lone Tiger out on a Sunday afternoon romp to beat up on the local T-34 platoon is quite insane. Always stay with your Zug.

Deux Advancing order: Lead points ahead at 12 o'clock, number two, left, points 9-10 o'clock, number three, right, points 2-3 o'clock, number four, center rear, keep your eyes open at the extreme flanks. Or somefink like that...

Song Maintain adequate spacing between tanks in an attempt to force a large turret or hull swing to acquire the next target.

etc... etc...

Be careful about skating about on the surface of an issue. The water is cold underneath. And it's deep too.</font>

[TSword]

The most important items of Lendlease for the russian army were the trucks, which were always in high demand and desperately needed to adequately supply armies moving fast. In the soviet (Jan/Feb 1943) Gallop-offensive (First to reach the sea of Azow, then redirected toward the Dnjiepr-crossings at vaporzsche and dnjiepropetowsk) the lack of motored vehicles was one of the reasons the offensive failed.

If those tenthousands of US-motored vehicles wouldn't have been sent, the soviet advance would have been a much slower and costly one.

Although one can have never enough tanks, the soviets produced enough by themselves.

To the turretspeed dingy:

The differences betw. Panther, KT and Allied tanks was negligible, since you seldom had to turn more than 60 degrees and there the difference is a couple of seconds. Seconds on which no normal thinking human would bet his life on a regular basis.....not knowing if that sole Panther has a comrade waiting for your flanking manouver.... Tiger had slow turret but the 75 mm Sherm was no threat to it above 500 m from either side. And 75mm M4's made up 75 % up to Oct. 1944. Almost no HVAP rounds for 76mm M4 (around 8000 !!!!!!!! rounds produced up to Oct. 1944).

Greets

Daniel

[WWB]

I would add, to the list of very important lend lease items, canned foodstuffs and especially waterproof telephone wire. Most of the best farmland in the USSR was under german domination from 41-43, making feeding the people more difficult than normal.

As for the telephone line, well, it is either waterpoof or not, and Soviet QA standards did not lead to waterproof lines.

WWB

[K_Tiger]

I read a statemnt from a panther co. where he stated the only one advantage the allies, or disadvantage from the panther compared to a allied tank, was the longer barrel, who it was often impossible to drive into woods and rotating the turret.

To the who one the war and the lend-lease: The quantitys of Trucks, Trains and the most important things "Food" played a more decisive factor then Weapons.

Not the army lost the war, the leader`s did. Dont need to say: Duenkirk, no winther clothes in front of Moskow, airwar over Britain, Jugoslavia and a lot more.

Maybe the russians were able to win the war without a helping hand, but they didnt also not fight a war in Afrika/Italy, over the reich, in the Atlantik, nor they need to fight against partisans all over europe and also they need holding troops for security in all countrys they occupied.