lavgunner Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 I recently encountered a situation while PBEM with a friend. My two Panthers where cresting a ridgeline and where partially hull down. I had an LOS on two Shermans and the action phase showed he had an LOS on my Panthers. I killed one Sherman, but one of the surviving Shermans refused to fire back, even with an LOS. After 8 seconds a shell hit causing the crew to button up, yet, it didn't penetrate. They continued to sit there another 10 seconds without firing a shot, only to be blown up. I understand LOS decreases when a crew is buttoned up, I don't understand why the Sherman didn't fire before closing the hatches. Later I moved up out of my position only to find a Pershing appear right and to the front of the destroyed Sherman. I clearly should have had an LOS on him from my hull down. After viewing the action phase from several angles, I'm confused about these things. Can anyone clear up these questions. I realize the game is not perfect, but it comes pretty close to the real thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 105mm Shermans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 Originally posted by lavgunner: I recently encountered a situation while PBEM with a friend. My two Panthers where cresting a ridgeline and where partially hull down. I had an LOS on two Shermans and the action phase showed he had an LOS on my Panthers. I killed one Sherman, but one of the surviving Shermans refused to fire back, even with an LOS. After 8 seconds a shell hit causing the crew to button up, yet, it didn't penetrate. They continued to sit there another 10 seconds without firing a shot, only to be blown up. I understand LOS decreases when a crew is buttoned up, I don't understand why the Sherman didn't fire before closing the hatches. Later I moved up out of my position only to find a Pershing appear right and to the front of the destroyed Sherman. I clearly should have had an LOS on him from my hull down. After viewing the action phase from several angles, I'm confused about these things. Can anyone clear up these questions. I realize the game is not perfect, but it comes pretty close to the real thing.was the sherm "shocked" maybe it was distracted by a more "killable" target? was the gun on the sherm ko'd? maybe the sherm only had HE left and no AP? Maybe they were busy loading a smoke round and could find one because they were scared silly by the panther -tom w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavgunner Posted April 11, 2002 Author Share Posted April 11, 2002 These where 76mm Shermans, who had no previous engagements during the game. I checked to see if they were shocked, but they seemed fine. I like to think that yes, they where urinating themselves about the fact that 2 Panthers where right on top of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hensworth Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 Did the other Sherm (the one that got toasted) fire at the Panthers ? If it didn't then I would surmise that neither of them actually spotted the Panthers. Since the first Sherman was killed by a single shot, Absolute Spotting did not kick in and the second Sherm crew remained blissfully unaware of what had just hit their buddies. It's not because a unit has LOS to an enemy unit that it will spot it with absolute certainty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Originally posted by Sgt_Kelly: Did the other Sherm (the one that got toasted) fire at the Panthers ? If it didn't then I would surmise that neither of them actually spotted the Panthers. Since the first Sherman was killed by a single shot, Absolute Spotting did not kick in and the second Sherm crew remained blissfully unaware of what had just hit their buddies. It's not because a unit has LOS to an enemy unit that it will spot it with absolute certainty.thats a good point if the Panthers "jumped" them and surprised them it is not unreasonable to wonder if the other sherm crew, (distracted by the near by brew-up), did not actually spot the offending panthers in there hull down posture cresting the ridge. Was it daylight or dusk or dawn or night time? MAYBE no other enemy units spotted the Panthers and they had the element of surprise going for them. on the other side of the coin I have lost tanks to the AI and I had NO IDEA where the shot came from, if you have detailed armour hits on and you see "knocked OUT! upper hull side penetration" and you think you are FACING the enemy you are left wondering (and rightly SO!) HELL! which side did the shot come from?? The ONE shot kill that comes from right out of the blue (no known source, even after you lose 2 or 3 AFVs) is one of the features in this game that is modeled MOST EXCELLENTLY! -tom w [ April 11, 2002, 06:31 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wodasini88 Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 it's similar to that sniper in vietnam who shot 30 enemy viet cong, without being spotted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Is it known what the experience levels of the two Sherman crews was? If low, they would be slow to spot and bring under fire. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Uber General Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Just because you can move the camera angle and you can see the panther from the sherms POV does not matter if you have scaled up the unit sizes - check that out with shift-C. For true LOS make sure all units are set to realistic size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavgunner Posted April 12, 2002 Author Share Posted April 12, 2002 Thanks for all your responses, I am much clearer on the issue. With all this support, I feel like we are all one big family....I think I'm going to cry. Thanks guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Originally posted by Sir Uber General: Just because you can move the camera angle and you can see the panther from the sherms POV does not matter if you have scaled up the unit sizes - check that out with shift-C. For true LOS make sure all units are set to realistic size.Even then, what you see may very well not be what you get! The graphic you see on the screen only approximates what the computer "sees" as it makes its calculations. The only sure way to tell if you have LOS is to use the LOS tool. And of course you can't do that until your unit is already in position. Michael [ April 12, 2002, 01:54 AM: Message edited by: Michael emrys ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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