When, and How Best to use Withdraw Command

[Louie the Toad]

I hear this can get you out of trouble fast, but I also have heard it can cause you to loose the battle. What is your experience?

Going through withdrawal, Toad

[PiggDogg]

Any time that my men are (1) about to get pounded by large arty (105 mm & larger) and (2) any time that my squads are getting bested in a fire fight (and, gee, I wish that I would take my advice more frequently on this second point, but I am learning & getting better), I use withdraw. In these getting pounded situations, withdraw is generally better than using run plus the command lag. Every literal second that one is getting heavily pounded costs casualties and morale.

Further, if I want to move men to the rear with no command delay (especially if the troops have large response lag times) use withdraw. They can always move laterally or forward in subsequent turns.

I have not had any bad experiences the withdraw command. However, others may enlighten us on bad experiences.

Cheers, Richard :cool:

[xerxes]

My men seem more likely to rout and break if they withdraw under heavy fire. Generally though, they were in pretty bad trouble anyway so I'm not sure it really has anything to do with withdraw.

Given that, I use withdraw a lot to quickly get out of trouble and it generally works very well.

Definitely if I feel the big HE or arty homing in I hit "w" and get out of dodge.

- marc

[Tread Head]

I was playing a Sm night IP game the other night and I withdrew a Plt. of Volks with a HMG and Arty spotter when the got jumped by a Plt or 2 of grunts, a Sherman and a halftrack. Only thing was I was close to a side Map edge and those wimps exited the Map! I fought on but you can guess the results....

Why? I had them W back and away from the side?

[Guest PondScum]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tread Head:

Why? I had them W back and away from the side?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Probably because they started panicking (always a risk when you withdraw), saw that there was no nearby cover, and decided to leave the battle?

[CombinedArms]

The real trouble you can get into when withdrawing is if you withdraw into the direct line of fire of enemy units, since withdrawing units are prone to break if they take further fire in the act of running like hell. It's best to use it when you can retreat immediately into a safe® locale.

Some good times to use the withdraw command:

1. To quickly exit from an area that's about to get pounded by artillery, if you've got a safer spot to move to.

2. To get out of a building fast that's taking direct HE fire from tanks or assault guns. Go to the immediate rear of the building, use it as a screen from the HE, then later re-enter the rubble (great cover) after the building explodes. If you've planned ahead, you'll start your defenders out behind buildings, so they'll have an actual foxhole to withdraw into while they wait.

3. To exit a position that's taking tank fire or excessive small arms fire--let's say your at the edge of a woods. Withdraw back into the woods. The enemy will lose LOS and you can regroup.

In general it's good to plan defensive positions with an eye to providing safe lines of withdrawal for your troops. Even attackers may want to think about this--do your guys have a safe way to exit if they get into trouble in the advance?

[Silvio Manuel]

It can be useful to bug out if your Platoon HQ gets eliminated and you don't want the Platoon to get squished.

Its too bad that you can't add a 2nd movement order to the W-command.

[ 09-05-2001: Message edited by: Silvio Manuel ]

[D'arcy Montague]

I think pre-emptively is best the approach. If used when the situation is already unfavourably hot then the risk usually high.

I use the withdraw command quite alot and find it to be a most versatile command if used with forethought, not "Oh Bollocks, they're all going to die! I've got to get them out of there!" Although ofcourse, sometimes this is unavoidable.

One particuarly useful application of the command that I have found, is when you are mounting a foward slope ambush along the crest of an elevation with good LOS in front of you. The ambush marker is postioned so that it should hopefully be tripped about 20-30 seconds into the round.

Once the 30 seconds of ambush is over, you issue the withdraw command at the start of the new round. Then your boys quickly nip out of sight behind the crest of the elevation, to fallback to their new, and presumably reverse slope, ambush position.

Using this peekaboo tactic will allow you to mount an 'entree' ambush in the face of markedly superior firepower without suffering signifcant casualties. It usually takes a little while for accurate fire to be brought to bear on a new threat, and by then you are gone, leaving your opponent thinking - "That cheeky little git!"

[PiggDogg]

Unfortunately, in my prior post in this thread, I did not include Montague's shoot & scoot plus withdrawal command. However, I very frequently use this tactic. Montague, good advice.

Cheers, Richard :cool: :cool: :cool:

[JasonC]

I agree with combined arms. The key to successful use of this command is to select your positions so that it is possible to break LOS completely after a fairly short move. Meaning, just far enough toward the edge of woods, not the very edge - likewise with buildings. Scattered trees and brush are things to look out for, because they often create long enemy LOS lines back into the cover.

When you are properly positioned, withdrawl will stop the incoming fire in 15 seconds flat. That is the key to not breaking when attempting it. Also, set the withdrawl location a far distance back, e.g. in the next body of cover, or at the least the very far edge of the one you are in. The men will get there fast enough. What you don't want is enemy to re-establish LOS, or rush your guys while they are still "shaken" or other such intermediate morale states.

If you are set up to break LOS, and run far enough, you will usually get away clean and recover before anyone can do anything about it. It lets you pick your fights - the ones you can win. It also lets you use the right tactical weapon. E.g. are you under direct fire from an artillery piece at 200+ yards? Don't try to shoot it out with rifles. Get out of there, and call in the off-map stuff that can hit the gun without reply.

[Louie the Toad]

D,Arcy

Are you saying that when your troops withdraw from a forward slope position to a rearward slope position they crest the slope with their backs to the enemy? Hmmmm ...

That is either pretty cheeky or deserves a :eek:

So this has worked for you??

Wary Toad.

[Randy Mauldin]

Have you guys ever had trouble giving the Withdraw command if the units in question are in good order? Every time I try to give it, with good order troops it won't allow it.

[PiggDogg]

Nope, have not had any problem with using the withdraw command for good order (& for that matter, somewhat bad order) troops.

Are you sure that you are not having your men going too parallel to the front lines & not too the rear? Also, are you withdrawing you men into the line of fire of your enemy? If you are in these two situations, then these may be your trouble.

Cheers, Richard :cool:

[D'arcy Montague]

Cheers Richard

Louie, I hope this will answer your points.

By 'foward slope ambush' I meant an ambush position from which one can see everything in front of the elevation (ie.facing towards the enemy).

The ambush troops are not actually in a "foward slope position". But instead lie just behind the crest of the elevation, able to see everything in front of it with just head and sholders exposed. Obviously, some sort of concealing terrain is required (at least during the day).

However even when spotted, this position affords good cover because, as outlined above, the minimium of body area is exposed. Also, direct fire HE takes little while to bracket a position and in the mean time the 'longs' go sailing over the crest of the elevation to land far behind, and the shorts fall in front of the slope while your boys lying just behind the crest. Just make sure and issue those withdrawl orders at the start of the new turn.

As for me, yes it works a treat, and as for cheeky.... Without a doubt!

[xerxes]

Panicked and broken units won't take any orders, including withdraw.

Kindof makes sense if you think about it. It was following orders from the guy who's now telling them to withdraw that got them in the mess in the first place.

-marc