Interesting Story on the KV-2

[Chad Harrison]

From the Tanks on the Prowl webpage. Quoted from the page:

"On June 23rd the German 6th Panzerdivision established two bridgeheads over the Dubissa river, seizing the town of Rasyenya. The attack to this bridgeheads (formed by Pz 35(t), infantry, artillery and AT guns) begun the same day by the 12th Mechanized Corps and 2nd Tank Division and its KV heavy tanks of the 3rd Mechanized Corps as reinforcement. General Solyalyskin sent a single KV-2 and some infantry to sever the road connection with the rest of 6th Panzer.

It remained in that point for two days, destroying with its 152mm gun twelve trucks which tried to supply the isolated bridgeheads. Six 50mm PaK 39 were moved to dispatch the tank but as they succesfully scored five direct hits, the tank's gunner opened fire destroying the first gun and damaging the others. An 88mm gun (from the FlaK Abt. 298) was moved from its camouflaged position in the Northern bridgehead and with its halftracked prime mover used the wreckage of the trucks to reach a distance of 900 metres from its target where it was spotted by the tank crew a destroyed with two direct hits. Relief parties were kept away from MG fire. Night actions of the German Pz.Pionier Bn. 57 Engineers to blow it up failed due to heavy armor which remained unscatted from the explosive charge applied to the hull. A new attempt was only able to broke the track. Heavy MGs' fire prevented other tentatives.

So desperate was becoming the situation that the 6th Panzerdivision requested the 1st Panzer to come to the rescue by striking the Western flank of the 12th Mechanized Corps and 2nd Tank Division. The 1st Pz. Div. was largely equipped with the neawer Pz III and IV, whcih have proved to be more succesfull (although in very unusual circumstances) than the Pz. 35(t) which equipped the 6th. In its drive, the 1st Pz. Div. succeded in breaching the Russian lines and defeat their armored forces as many KV tanks among their ranks (29 were destroyed or abandoned in the actions). This helped the bridgeheads by a grave pressure and so a Platoon of Pz. 35(t)s was sent to distract the KV-2 tank while another 88mm was carefully brought forward. When in position it opened fire, scoring six direct hits apparently disabling the tank. Further examination proved that only two projectiles had penetrated and while the German crew climbed over the tank, its turret rotated against them. An engineer finished it by launching some explosive in."

I know what I want on my side for CMBB! I loved the hummel, but it only had about 20 rounds of 150mm. Now, you can take either the KV-2 with 36 rounds of 152mm (HE), or take the Brummbar with 38 rounds of 150mm (HE). This will be a very nice addition, especially to watch the new buildings crumble! Big explosions coming our way!

Chad Harrison

Changed to relfex my laziness!

[ August 23, 2002, 10:08 AM: Message edited by: Chad Harrison ]

[rune]

The KV-2 did NOT have AP rounds.

Rune

[Chad Harrison]

Originally posted by rune:

The KV-2 did NOT have AP rounds.

Rune

I realized that after I had posted and was too lazy to change my mistake! I had just read about the ISU-152, which does have AP rounds that weighed in at around 90 kg's!, and I think I got a little mixed up that early in the morning!

The only bad thing about the ISU-152 is that you only get about 20 rounds IIRC. With those being split up between AP and HE. Sure will be fun to watch one in action against the Panthers and Tigers though!

Chad Harrison

[Gud]

KW-2 had AP rounds. It's gun was actually a obr.20 howitzer, which had AP (APHE actually) rounds.

What is true is that no Soviet vehicle used HEAT rounds - these came after ww2.

[rune]

Gud,

Going to argue with you. According to Red Army Handbook, AND Valera's www.battlefield.ru, the KV-2 never had ap shells. It had HE and concrete busters.

CORRECTION: They were NOT allowed to even use the concrete busters, strictly HE.

A post from Valera

"KV-2 did not have any armor-piercing ammo. Not at all!"

Rune

[ August 23, 2002, 12:35 PM: Message edited by: rune ]

[Gud]

Rune,

Thanks ! Could be that my book on Soviet AFVs (Polish one) confused anti-concrete shells with AP ones. I thought that since the gun is same as towed one, AP shells were issued. I wonder how will 152mm shell affect light AFVs - flip them over ?

Actually my book mentions also production version of KV with 122mm howitzer...

I'm an old SP veteran (SPww2 and MBT currently) and ever since Sp1 KV 2 had AP shells, guess I got used to that

Cheers !

[ August 23, 2002, 12:47 PM: Message edited by: Gud ]

[Triggerhappy]

Originally posted by Chad Harrison:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />" ... General Solyalyskin sent a single KV-2 and some infantry to sever the road connection with the rest of 6th Panzer ...

</font>

[rune]

Gud,

Where the confusion may come in is the Naval forces and their version of the gun did indeed use AP and Concrete rounds, however, the handbook on the kv-1 [according to valera's site] said their use was strictly prohibited. Trust me when I say we had some excellent sources on Russian weapons involved in the beta.

Rune

[Gyrene]

I read somewhere that the KV2 had trouble turning it's turret in uneven terrain - Was this true?

Obviously this feature will not make it into CMBB

Gyrene

[Chad Harrison]

Originally posted by Gyrene:

I read somewhere that the KV2 had trouble turning it's turret in uneven terrain - Was this true?

Obviously this feature will not make it into CMBB

Gyrene

Yes that is true. IIRC, the turret weighed so much that it would throw it off balance by doing so. Look at a picture of one, the turret is soooo tall! It must not be too hard to hit one of those suckers!

Also, IIRC, in Advanced Squad Leader the game piece was considered a NT (Non Turret) vehicle for that very reason.

Originally posted by Triggerhappy:

If only I read that story earlier. I just lost 17 tanks, mainly Pz III H and 38(t), to two of those beasts. An infantery assault failed, too. All in all I lost about half my forces during the last four rounds of a battle (part of an operation) when all that was left of the Red Army were these two KV2's and some badly beaten infantery platoons. *sigh*

Well, atleast we know that they are modelled correctly in CMBB!! I would assume though that the ammo load out would not last too long in an extended firefight of an operation. Unfortunate (for russians) and good thing (for germans) was that the KV-2 was put of our production in 1942 because of its slow speed and other factors.

Chad Harrison

[M Hofbauer]

that incident had been posted only like two or three times before on this board.

[Chad Harrison]

Originally posted by M Hofbauer:

that incident had been posted only like two or three times before on this board.

Well, atleast someone got a chance to read it for the first time.

[Guest Mike]

It's just as well for the Russians the KV-2 went out of production, because once the surprise factor was gone it wold have become toast - slow, ungainly and actually quite weakly armoured compared to the KV1.

But hten it's low RoF meant that its 30-40 rounds could actually last quite a while, and who the f*ck needs AP for a 152mm weapon in 1941 for heaven's sake??!! lol

It's not like hte Germans had Tigers or Panthes!!

[Chad Harrison]

Originally posted by Mike:

But hten it's low RoF meant that its 30-40 rounds could actually last quite a while, and who the f*ck needs AP for a 152mm weapon in 1941 for heaven's sake??!! lol

You know, now that you mention it, I suppose that a 152mm HE round would fare pretty well against the Mark III's 30 or so MM or armour! No wonder they were held up so long. What I dont understand though is why a 88 had such a hard time knocking one of those out? Should of ripped right through it!

Its not like hte Germans had Tigers or Panthes!!

Well now, that why the Russians had the SU-152 and ISU-152. What was that that they said about the ISU-152's AP shell sliceing a Tiger I's turret in half? But only 20 rounds in a ISU-152!!!! To bad in CMBB we dont get ammo trucks . . .