CM Lock Up With Win XP

[Col Deadmarsh]

I just upgraded to XP from Win98 SE and I'm experiencing lock-ups within minutes of going into the map screen.

At first when I upgraded, I was getting the transparent white type problem. Then I went to guru3d.com and got the 28.32 driver and installed it. That took care of the transparency problem but now it's locking up the game.

My system is: AMD 1.33, 384 MB RAM, Hercules 3-D Prophet II MX, Asus MB A7V133.

Anyone got any ideas on what to do now? Could it be a problem with the BIOS?

Update: Windows is locking up in other programs too like Excel.

[ March 29, 2002, 12:49 AM: Message edited by: Colonel_Deadmarsh ]

[Schrullenhaft]

Are you loading up any utilities from your Win98SE installation (like anti-virus, scanner, etc.) ? You may want to examine what programs are loading at startup. You may also want to run the Windows Update and see if there is anything applicable there for you (a general compatibility file, etc.).

[Col Deadmarsh]

Actually, it said WinXP isn't compatible with my scanner drivers although I haven't uninstalled the software yet or upgraded. Would this really cause my system to freeze, even when I'm not trying to use the scanner?

I'll update those drivers right now and see if that works. In the mean time, I've also taken off Rambooster and other start up programs to see if that helps.

[Pvt. Ryan]

I had installed an HP scanner on my computer running Win98SE, but the drivers were for Win95. I dowloaded new drivers, but they wouldn't install correctly and the result was that my computer kept crashing even though I wasn't using the scanner. My point is that the bad scanner drivers messed up my system until I completely uninstalled all the scanner software.

[rucrazee]

I put together a rig using your same CPU and an ASUS A7A266 MB and I am running XP Pro. I had some problems with this board, but I think I have finally ironed all the problems out.

First, go to ASUS and download the latest bios updates and any other updates that apply to your board. http://download.asus.com.tw/mb_dl_menu.asp

Second, I beleive your board probably uses the ALI MAGIK1 chipset like mine, but I could be wrong. If it does, then go to http://www.ali.com.tw/ and download the Northbridge 1647 and Southbridge 1535D+ updates or whichever ones your chipset uses. You might find some of these updates are redundant, just download whatever updates are the newest and only the ones that apply to WinXP.

Flash your bios first (BE VERY CAREFUL) and follow the instructions exactly. After you have the new bios installed, then you can install the other updates. If that doesn't solve your problem then let me know and I may be able to assist you in some software trouble shooting. Good luck at let me know how it goes.

[Schrullenhaft]

Actually the Col's motherboard is based on a VIA chipset. So, I'd suggest installing the VIA chipset drivers which you can get from here. I'm not sure how much of a difference the 4.38 4-in-1's will make for Windows XP, but it is probably a good idea to install them anyway.

[Col Deadmarsh]

Okay Schrullencraft, I just updated the drivers for the BIOS but Windows is still locking up, this time when CM was minimized.

I'm not sure if the BIOS was updated or not, even after I restarted my computer. I was looking at the driver details in System Devices and under for instance, VIA CPU to AGP Controller, the driver date is 10/6/2001. That can't be right, can it?

Is there a way to check and see for sure if this thing has updated the BIOS or not so I know where to go from here?

Thanks.

[ March 29, 2002, 10:14 PM: Message edited by: Colonel_Deadmarsh ]

[Col Deadmarsh]

Okay, I'm really confused and frustrated here...

Rus, I already installed the via 4 in 1 drivers that Schrull recommended. I'm not sure if they installed since some of the driver dates I've been looking at say 2001 but I'm going to assume they did.

Now...what am I supposed to download from ASUS and install over that? They don't have any directions for people who don't know what they're doing. Are there more drivers than just the via 4 in 1? Remember, my motherboard is VIA chipset like Schrull said.

I need to know exactly what to download at ASUS site cause it's very confusing to me.

[Schrullenhaft]

The BIOS is a piece of firmware (software based in hardware) that is usually upgraded outside of Windows (by booting off of a diskette most often). Windows typically won't give you any indication that you have a different BIOS programmed/updated.

The VIA drivers may give a 2001 date for some of them. Some parts of the driver are updated, while others may remain at the same revision for a long time. The driver will not usually give the date of install, but instead the date that it was originally created by the developer.

The BIOS update may help with some things, but it may very well likely do nothing more for you. The latest BIOS for the ASUS AV7133 board is 1008a. You can see your current version when you reboot/turn on your computer - while the memory is counting there will often be a BIOS revision number on the screen in the upper left hand corner (below the BIOS family manufacturer like AWARD, AMI, etc.). BIOS upgrades may fix certain compatibility problems with hardware or software. In the case of Windows XP most fixes would be to correct the 'ACPI Implemantation' to work properly with XP. Other things that are upgraded often involve support for larger hard drives, video card compatibility and power saving functions (correcting them).

Sometimes a setting in your CMOS/BIOS setup may affect certain problems. With Windows XP ACPI becomes the predominant configuration protocol and this sometimes causes problems with certain drivers (due to forced IRQ sharing, etc.). Unfortunately just turning off ACPI can't be done since Windows XP bases its configuration on it and will need to be reinstall if it is turned off.

You can download the ASUS BIOS update for your board here (you'll need to pick out your A7V133 board from the list). Again the 1008a BIOS is the latest. There are some instructions on ASUS's website for performing the upgrade. Typically you'll need to create a bootable diskette (which can't be done with XP or 2000). On this diskette you copy/extract the BIOS upgrade files. I believe ASUS has you manually run the BIOS updater with a command line.

[ March 30, 2002, 12:24 AM: Message edited by: Schrullenhaft ]

[Col Deadmarsh]

Schrull,

I downloaded the BIOS drivers from ASUS (1008a) but I don't see any instructions anywhere on how to update the BIOS. Plus, when I unpacked the folder and tried to run it, Windows didn't know how to open the file which is an AWD file...whatever the hell that is.

Can you or someone else help me out here? I have no idea about what to do next.

P.S.--Just today after changing around my memory cards making sure that wasn't the problem, I got a screen upon boot-up telling me my BIOS wasn't ACPI compliant...the first note of this I had seen. Does this mean for sure that my problem lies in the BIOS and not with something else?

[slingblade]

CMBO playes for a time (length varies), then locks up my machine.

My system is also AMD 1.2 T-Bird with an ASUS ATA 266 and 512M of DDR RAM as main memory.

I'm running XP Pro with all the updates ( I check monthly), and I've updated the drivers for my Live sound card and my GeForce 2 GTS (64 M) as recommended by the tech FAQ here @ Battlefront.

I've downloaded and installed the latest CMBO patch. I've reinstalled the game and patch several times.

The only thing that I've not done is update my BIOS, but that can be tricky, and if you screw up, my understanding is that the machine may not boot. So basically, I've decided that I'm not going to fool with the BIOS. And I really shouldn't have to.

I can run virtually anything on this machine that's made for Windows 98/2k without incident. CMBO ran flawlessly on my previous Win 98 machine, but won't run for sh*t on this one.

Is there a plan for Battlefront to release a newer version of this game that is REALLY XP compatible? I've written to tech support and what I got in reply was that there are issues with XP and nVidia cards. Yet I can run virtually everything else from Quake2 to the latest expansion pack of MW4 and a ton of stuff in-between. So it would seem that XP and my video card are getting along just fine.

So what I don't get is that if everyone elses software runs on this machine, but CMBO doesn't, how is it my machine?

I wouldn't care, but CMBO is the best wargame EVER, and I've played a lot of them. And it has a great community for updates and media packs. I hate not being able to play CMBO, but now I've pretty much given up. And that just sucks. So again, is Battlefront going to deal with these issues, or am I dead on the field?

Slingblade

[Madmatt]

Slingblade, there is nothing for us to fix as CMBO IS XP compatable fully. All reported problems like you are seeing have always either been related to device drivers, or with other applications running concurently which can sometimes cause instability.

I have a Nvidia video card and run Windows XP as do many of the beta testers and none of us have had any issues at all.

Anyone running a AMD processor needs to ensure they have the latest 4 in 1 drivers installed for their motherboard chipset. I have seen these drivers fix over 95% of ALL reported issues affecting AMD powered systems.

You can get those drivers right here:

http://www.viahardware.com/download/index.shtm#4in1

There is a new and updated XP 4in1 version there.

You should ONLY ever patch your install of CMBO if the version you have on the CD is NOT v1.12. If you bought the game in the last year and a half it would be already.

The rule of thumb while trying to fix issues like yours is to first re-install DirectX, then install the latest video and sound drivers. Next go into your CMBO folder and delete the Combat Mission Bynd Ovr Prefs file. Then try and relaunch the game.

If the crashes persist, try and play with sound disabled and see if that improves things. If it does then ensure that your sound card is not sharing a IRQ with other devices.

Try the above and then come back here and update us on your situation and we will see what else we can do to help.

Also, don't assume that because other games work that the problem is not somewhere with the other installed software on your system.

Other games all do things differently and it is not wise to base any troubleshooting assumptions on something like that. Some games use DirectX, other games use OpenGL and even games of the same type can do things internally in different ways.

[Schrullenhaft]

Colonel_Deadmarsh - this link on ASUS's website should give you the instructions for flashing your BIOS (click on the 'How to manage and update your motherboard's BIOS' link. You'll need the ASUS flash program AFLASH.EXE which will use the .AWD file you have (which is the actual BIOS image file that gets loaded). The only problem you may have is making a boot diskette (you'll need Win9x/ME to do this).

Clicking on the 'Motherboard' link will take you to the listing of motherboards sorted by Socket/Slot type. When you've selected your motherboard and the unique page comes up, click on the 'BIOS flash note' text in the upper right of the columns. This will bring up a Java window where you can download the AFLASH.EXE file.

The BIOS 1008a doesn't seem to really mention anything about ACPI (just a fix to work with certain Flash ROMs). The notes for the previous version (1008) only mention that they're the 'latest', so there may be some ACPI related fixes.

slingblade - as Madmatt said, you may want to double-check that you've installed the VIA 4-in-1 drivers (assuming that your motherboard is VIA based - if it isn't then don't install these drivers but the ones for your specific chipset). Is your motherboard the ASUS A7V266 ? The 4-in-1 drivers and/or the AGP specific driver can be very useful for some problems. The chipset manufacturers will release small updates to their AGP code that can help with specific problems (and the Windows supplied driver may be a bit too generic in some instances).

BIOS updates aren't always necessary. ASUS usually has some decent notes as to what has been fixed with each revision. If you follow their instructions on flashing (and you don't constantly suffer lockups), then flashing the BIOS should be problem free (though you may want to make note of what the settings are in your CMOS/BIOS setup).

What video drivers are you using with your GeForce ? The very latest official drivers are the 28.32's (which might not appear on the Windows Update site immediately). These drivers typically solve some problems that XP & 2000 users have had with white becoming transparent in some bitmaps, but nothing specific about lockups (though it may work better than the previous 23.11's with some chipsets). I have heard of problems with the latest drivers and the ALI Magik 1 chipset (ASUS uses this on their A7A266 board).

If you're overclocking either your CPU or video card, then you may be subject to more lockups than usual in CM (though your other games may play fine). CM is so texture/memory intensive with so many unique textures that overclocking of the video memory speed can quickly find problems (though other programs may not suffer the same problems).

Since you're running Windows XP you already have the latest officially released version of DirectX and there is no installer for DirectX for that OS at the moment ('til DirectX 9.0 comes out).

As Madmatt mentioned, try to play without sound or with Ambient sound turned off. IRQ sharing for some devices is a bit problematic, especially with ACPI.

[ April 01, 2002, 02:03 PM: Message edited by: Schrullenhaft ]

[Col Deadmarsh]

A couple of questions...

Do I need to uninstall Win XP and go back to 98SE to make my boot disk for this flasher or is there an easier way?

What is the difference between the 4 in 1 drivers and the BIOS update in which I have to Flash my BIOS?

Madmatt, how does one check to see if you have more than 1 piece of hardware sharing an IRQ slot? I can check to see which one my sound card is on but is there a way to get a list of what's on each IRQ?

[Schrullenhaft]

The BIOS is a piece of firmware that remains on your computer even if you were to remove the hard drive (it is programmed into an updatable ROM). It is different from the VIA 4-in-1 drivers. The 4-in-1 drivers are software that is specific to VIA chipsets. The BIOS is specific to your motherboard brand, model and even revision (of the hardware on the motherboard).

Just to confuse you, ASUS has the BIOS and other applicable software located on one page for download. They used to separate them, but I guess user feedback prompted them to reorganize their website to the way it is now.

To find out your IRQ usage under Windows XP/2000 go to: Start Menu > Settings > Control Panel > (in Classic View) System control panel > Hardware tab > Device Manager button > View menu and select Resources by Type. This will organize the display by the resource used, under the Interrupt Request (IRQ) section you'll see which IRQ each device is assigned to. Find your audio device (the primary WAV player, not the MIDI) and see if any other devices are using that same IRQ.

[Col Deadmarsh]

Well, this is interesting...

I decided to try Madmatt's sound card test before I did anything rash like screw with the BIOS and I might've found what was wrong...maybe. I loaded up the game, turned off the sound, and I'm not getting any lock-ups.

In addition to that, I've also gone into my Device Manager to look at the IRQ settings and I apparently have a whole crapload of stuff on the same IRQ channel, #9. Here is what I found:

IRQ 0 System timer OK

IRQ 1 Standard 101/102-Key or Microsoft Natural PS/2 Keyboard OK

IRQ 3 Communications Port (COM2) OK

IRQ 4 Communications Port (COM1) OK

IRQ 6 Standard floppy disk controller OK

IRQ 8 System CMOS/real time clock OK

IRQ 9 Microsoft ACPI-Compliant System OK

IRQ 9 NVIDIA GeForce2 MX/MX 400 OK

IRQ 9 VIA Rev 5 or later USB Universal Host Controller OK

IRQ 9 VIA Rev 5 or later USB Universal Host Controller OK

IRQ 9 3Com 3C900B-TPO Ethernet Adapter (Generic) OK

IRQ 9 Vortex Multifunction PCI Parent OK

IRQ 9 Aureal Vortex 8820 Audio (WDM) OK

IRQ 9 Promise Technology Inc. Ultra IDE Controller OK

IRQ 12 PS/2 Compatible Mouse OK

IRQ 13 Numeric data processor OK

IRQ 14 Primary IDE Channel OK

IRQ 15 Secondary IDE Channel OK

What do you guys think? Would it say if there was a conflict or might my computer not be able to detect it?

Should I try moving some of this stuff to another channel and if so, can you tell me how to do it?

I really appreciate the help Schrull. It's been very informative to say the least.

[Schrullenhaft]

You're using ACPI, which will stuff every PCI/AGP device into one IRQ. There is no way around this other than to disable ACPI in the CMOS/BIOS setup (and many motherboards won't allow you to do this) and reinstall Windows XP (preferably from scratch). A true hassle.

I'd guess, but I have no where to send you from here, is that your sound card is having a problem with the ACPI configuration. Sharing the IRQ is just too much for the drivers. Do you have to turn off sound completely to avoid lockup or can you just turn off the ambient sound ?

Aureal Vortexes are fairly nice sound cards/chips, but their manufacturer has gone out of business. I'm not sure who wrote the driver for Windows 2000/XP, but you probably won't see many updates for them. I don't know if it is worth the hassle or not for you to upgrade your sound card to something new, like a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz.

[ April 02, 2002, 11:31 AM: Message edited by: Schrullenhaft ]

[Col Deadmarsh]

I think I solved the problem with the freezing. A new sound card seems to have done the trick. No lock-ups in CM or Windows Media Player so far.

I tried to find a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz card but no major stores carry them...even here in Los Angeles. I went with the Sound Blaster Live instead since it's supposed to be better for games--better quality of sound they say.

Thanks for the help.