Wildhack Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 I'm a newb having some real trouble with CMBB v1.3, and would appreciate any suggestions you guys might have. I've managed to play through a few smaller scenarios with this problem being manageable, but currently, in a 2700 point battle I am trying to wage, I can't seem to run CMBB more than a few minutes before the display blinks out into a grainy whitish color. Only a reboot can restore it. Notably, the same problem occurs in both Win98SE and WinXP (I have a dual boot OS). I've tried: 1.)Changing video drivers (currently 45.23 in XP, and 30.82 in Win98) 2.) I updated all (other) drivers and bios's not more than 3 months ago. 3.) I've reduced ingame refresh rates as low as 72hz (at 1024x768 32 bit; way below max for my card and monitor). 4.) I'm pretty darn sure heat isn't an issue (I'm running totally non-oc'd in a well ventilated case; processor temp around 36 centigrade). 5.) Anti aliasing is manually set to off. 6.) I'm using fairly conservative bios settings (video fast writes off, memory timings tested with memtest-86, etc.). But I'm open to suggestions. Right now my only idea is a possible correspondence between mouse movement and the crash's. But I'm reluctant to try something other than my Logitech Marble Mouse trackball unless somebody can specifically tell me there is a problem here. Thanks for any tips, Wildhack ---------------------------------------------- Athlon XP 1900 w/Microstar VIA KT333 chipset 512MB 333mhz DDR Gainward GeForce Ti4200 w/64MB Built in AC'97 audio Viewsonic 19" A90f+ Ultrabright monitor 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrullenhaft Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 Perhaps your card is defective. If your colors are fading into a grainy, whitewash then it sounds like the RAMDAC within the GPU is having problems or some other analog device on the output of the RAMDAC is the culprit. If this problem is happening with multiple OSes and different drivers, then it sounds like a hardware problem. I can't tell from what you've posted however if the problem is actually more prevalent, occurs quicker or what with the larger battle sizes (if there is an actual difference). I suggest contacting the Tech/Warranty support of either the dealer/distributor you purchased the card from (if it was a recent purchase) or the Tech Support of your card manufacturer ( Gainward direct contacts or web-based email form). [ October 24, 2003, 02:40 PM: Message edited by: Schrullenhaft ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildhack Posted October 24, 2003 Author Share Posted October 24, 2003 I don't think it's hardware because although I have my share of CTD's and BSOD's in other D3D games, I don't get this sort of instantaneous corruption of the (whole) display. But thanks for trying Shrullenhaft. err, and I should also add that I am using the Windows default mouse cursor (I have read the tech support guide). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrullenhaft Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 You need to be more descriptive of exactly what you're seeing. If you can, posting a screenshot may be needed (if possible) to discern what kind of problem you're having. Plenty of users have your video card and are playing CM without problem (as far as the NVidia drivers accomodate them). What mouse driver are you using and can you use a Microsoft generic driver instead ? Are you using the 'Ultrabright' setting on your monitor for CM ? Does this problem occur with this setting off ? Does Alt-Tab'ing out and back into CM make any sort of difference to the display ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildhack Posted October 24, 2003 Author Share Posted October 24, 2003 I just lasted about 20 minutes with Ultrabright off (don't think I made it past about 2 minutes in ten previous tries), and was getting hopeful. But no joy. I think Ultrabright is pretty much a gimmick that simply cranks up contrast and brightness. I did try to take a screenshot, but because the screen is also corrupted in Windows I couldn't see to paste it into Paint. The best I can describe the appearance of the glitch is a complete covering of the display with small squares of light blue to bluish white (but the squares are larger than individual pixels). The mouse cursor is a slightly different color, and is barely discernable as a square rather than a pointer of about half an inch by half an inch. I can hear the game playing in the background, so this is not a CTD. Alt + tabbing brings me back to the desktop (sound stops), but like I said, this area is also corrupt. Returning to the game (without re-booting) doesn't clear anything up. I actually read something about anything other than the lastest Logitech mouse driver causing problems in Star Wars Galaxies (horrible game) just a few weeks ago, so I had just updated this driver directly from Logitech. I'll try going back to a Windows driver (but this will probably still be autodetected by XP, and come from Logitech), and I'll update this post tomorrow if it does any good. But my trackball doesn't have a 3rd button so...? I knew when I couldn't find dozens of people whining about this glitch in the forums I was probably going to be in for a rough time. Thanks again for trying to help. Again, I'll update this thread if I find a workaround or a cause. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bcnu Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 This is exactly the same trouble I've been having with CMBO (first the demo and now the full version) as well as CMBB demo. The whole screen turns to odd whitish crud and locks up. Athlon 1900+ Gigabyte 7VAX-A motherboard (KT400 chip) Gainward Ti4200 64Mb Onboard AC97 sound. BIOS and sound/video/motherboard drivers are current or almost current (haven't tried 52.16 NVidia yet). 30.82 NVidia drivers didn't help. Problem occurs with sound on or off and at all resolutions and refresh rates. Nothing is overclocked, no AA, no AF on the video. Fiddling with hardware acceleration doesn't help. There does seem to be a correlation between the time the PC has been doing 3d graphics and the crashes. However the problem only occurs in CMBO/CMBB and Grand Prix Legends (and only then in D3D mode, OpenGL is fine). However of all odd things the graphics kludge hasn't reoccurred since 10/25 (I know, only two days) when I updated the LAN driver. Hopefully it's gone... I'm guessing a PCI latency issue. My BIOS doesn't have a setting for PCI latency. If yours does, try adjusting it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildhack Posted October 28, 2003 Author Share Posted October 28, 2003 Ok, problem definitely solved for me. I have over 15 hours of play now without this glitch happening, and I was never able to play more than 1/2 hour before. I changed two things: 1.) I had AGP timing set to 2x, and bumped it back up to 4x. But I doubt this was it. 2.) I changed Advanced Chipset Features > AGP Timing Control > "AGP Read Synchronization" to "enabled" in the BIOS. Apparently this setting provides comaptibility to some "outdated" software, and is default set to off on most newer systems. But turning it on did the trick for me. Please note, however, that people seem to say this setting may cause problems in other software applications if left enabled. [ October 28, 2003, 06:58 AM: Message edited by: Wildhack ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bcnu Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 Thanks for the advice, but the Gigabyte 7VAX-A doesn't have that setting available for me to change. CMBO works fine on my wife's machine, which has an NForce2 chipset. Sounds better on hers, too, very crisp. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildhack Posted November 2, 2003 Author Share Posted November 2, 2003 Well, I have to report this video corruption bug is still happening to me, though at a greatly reduced frequency. But still enough to be annoying. Notice how we both have Gainward Ti4200 cards Bncu? That's interesting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bcnu Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 Let's call that *had* Ti4200 cards. The scrambled video is occurring now on all 3d applications and even occasionally on the desktop. My Gainward card is toast. I remember when the Gainward Ti4200s first came out many people had to RMA theirs due to graphic corruption caused by bad capacitors. Looks like even the 'good' ones die off (wife's died inside of Newegg's 1-year warranty; this one is 16 months old and I'll be calling Gainward). CMBO works fine with my spare box's GF4MX card albeit slowly, as one would expect with a card of that caliber; and very well with my wife's replacement Ti4200, which is from ASUS. Lastly it's 'bcnu' as in 'be seeing you' not 'bncu' which is incomprehensible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bcnu Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 My final word on the subject: http://www.amdforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=166031 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaegerMeister Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 Just to add my pennies worth, i too have had major problems with scrambled graphics in CMBB & BO using a Gainward Ti4200. I could never update the drivers as they made the game un-playable, i had to stick to 40.5.3 (i think..forgotten exactly) to play. I have just rebuilt and now have FX5200 card. I have still had a few random graphic lockups, only in CMBB, other graphic intense games like IL2 flight sim work fine. Elsewhere on this forum, people mention a Microsoft update for Nvidia drivers...anyone know this to be true? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrullenhaft Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 As far as I'm aware the Microsoft Update for NVidia drivers is nothing unique. It is a particular version of the Detonator driver and nothing more. It cannot be applied to various driver versions to fix particular problems. The July 2003 update (which I beleive to be the latest offering from Microsoft's Update page) is a WHQL version 45.23 driver. As 'Bcnu' posted above, the Gainward Ti4200's have had hardware problems with their capacitors (which effect the power supply to the GPU and/or memory to my knowledge). It's possible that the more current drawn by the chip, the more likely it is for the particular problems to develop (in this case a 'checkerboard' pattern garbled screen). I couldn't really say if CM is possibly more graphically intense than IL-2. It obviously doesn't support newer lighting effects that IL-2 has, but it's possible that CM may be pushing more vertices and/or textures. The issues that 'JaegerMeister' brings up are most likely driver issues involving FSAA and 2D screen updates - the drivers are solely responsible for the problems and are not particular to the Gainward hardware. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bcnu Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Successful update: Returned Ti4200 to Gainward under warranty (3 years). Card came back yesterday and operates flawlessly in CM. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaegerMeister Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Hmmm, i am still having major troubles with Cmbb & bo graphically freezing or crashing even with a system re-build and a Gainward 5200fx installed. All of my other 3d intense (1st person shooters, flight & racing sims) work fine. The problem seems to be when the ambient temperature of the room is higher than 'cold'. Surely these cards are built to work in all temps? and strange that its only with the CM games. Are there any known issues with an Nvidia/SBlive conflict with CM?..or is it purely graphics related? Its very frustrating as i have been playing these games since their first release. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrullenhaft Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 I'm not familiar with an NVidia/SBLive issue. I know of problems the SB Lives and Audigys have with VIA (and some others) chipsets (PCI Latency/Bus Mastering). Interestingly enough your Gainward GeForce FX5200 is passively cooled (i.e. - there is no cooling fan). This is a bit questionable, but most (but not all) other manufactures also have passive cooling with this particular video chipset. It's undoubtedly part of NVidia's specs, but Gainward may just be having problems here (like they have with their GF4 Ti4200's). As bcnu noted, other games worked fine, but CM had the most problems. It's possible that CM pushes the video card harder than the other 3D games and the passive cooling may not be enough. Chaintech is one of the few manufacturers that is putting an active cooling fan on the heatsink for this video chip. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TufenHuden Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 Gainward has a 5200 with a cooling fan and heat sinks on ram-just have to look around or look on there website,I've there new 5900FX-ultra-256mb goldensample and it has one big heatsink and 2-fans on it and rocks,got to reflective water with rippling effects before it Frooze on DarkageofCamelot shroaded Ilses,but it was cool. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildhack Posted December 4, 2003 Author Share Posted December 4, 2003 Fantastic job of tracking this problem down BCNU. I'm going to RMA my card today, and am glad I decided to check in again on the progress of this thread. And you were right Schrullenhaft. It was hardware. Thanks again, Wildhack 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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