Dr.Juzzy Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 Observing the relative performace of the 7.62mm Model 1910 Maxim Russian Model SPM with the Maschinengewehr 42 in the (breathtaking) CM:BB demo set me thinking: Which was better: wheels or tripod ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtaskagain Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 Originally posted by Justin5471: Observing the relative performace of the 7.62mm Model 1910 Maxim Russian Model SPM with the Maschinengewehr 42 in the (breathtaking) CM:BB demo set me thinking: Which was better: wheels or tripod ?Where exactly are you finding MG42s in the demo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 If you have to bring a monster like the Maxim somewhere wheels are better, that way you can pull it behind you with two men. If it is light enough to actually carry around or if you can break it up in manageable parts then tripod is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Juzzy Posted September 13, 2002 Author Share Posted September 13, 2002 Its not in your version of the demo? I've got the CM:BB Clown Car demo ver. 102.1a. Its the one with all the good bits they fixed or somefink to make the game miserable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Juzzy Posted September 13, 2002 Author Share Posted September 13, 2002 Foxbat - I agree. I'm leaning very much towards the Maxim at the moment. Wheels AND an optional gun mantle - it dosn't get much better than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 Justin, personally I think the Maxim wins hands down, because of the shield, which was often used to display personal propaganda messages, thus increasing unit performance. I have just had a look at my copy of Duschwitz 'Obscure propaganda slogans of the Great Patriotic War' Vol. XVII, Berlin, National People's Army Publishing, 1968. Here are some examples: 'Smile, you are in my sights' 1st Belorussian Front, 1944 'My other automatic weapon is a PPSh' Vyazma, 1941 'Honk if you like water-cooled MGs' 2nd Baltic Front, 1945 'The machine-gun in front is a Maxim' Southwestern Front, 1942 'Tune in to 102.4 Stalingrad FM' Stalingrad Front, 1942 'Vorsprung durch Technitsky' 2nd Ukrainian Front, 1943 'My government went to war and all I got was this lousy ATR' 3rd Guards Tank Army, Berlin, 1945 'Recruits on board' Smolensk, 1941 Clearly, the propagandistic value of these slogans had a major effect on Soviet small unit performance. I hope this is interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 Finns used their Maxim's on tripod, and refitted also the ones captured from Soviets that had the Sokolov mount. I guess that has to do with terrain - wheeled mount is no good in northern forests, you have to carry it anyway. But in steppe, sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtaskagain Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 Originally posted by Justin5471: Its not in your version of the demo? I've got the CM:BB Clown Car demo ver. 102.1a. Its the one with all the good bits they fixed or somefink to make the game miserable.There arent MG42s in either of the demo scenarios Yelnia Stare is in 41, which is a year before the introduction of the MG42, so you have the slower ROF MG34. The panzers in the citadel scenario all use MG34s as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Juzzy Posted September 13, 2002 Author Share Posted September 13, 2002 As always, Andreas, interesting post. I'm fortunate enough to have a rare copy of Igor Stepupovich's 1954 softbound 'The Sukolov Success" where, on p. 612, papragraph 4, he refers to some additional sloganeering loosely translated, if my Russian ids not too off as : 'Careful - Babushka on-board'. Plate 5.5 even illustrates the so-called 'go faster stripes' so chararacteristic of 616th Infatry Division at the Battle of Sevastopol in May 1942. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 Ah, Stepupovich. Always looked up to, never bested when it comes to this kind of stuff. Does he by any chance have a photo of the Guards ES (Editionsky Spetsialsky) Maxim with aluminium alloy wheels and a second rear mirror? I always looked for one of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Juzzy Posted September 13, 2002 Author Share Posted September 13, 2002 Andreas - good point. Unfortunately, not in that volume. I've had a root around somne militaria dealers I know and I've come up with a real find: a "Sokolov" mounting comprising the usual pair of wheels supporting a large turntable and a U-shaped trail PLUS full fluted water jackets and magnificent wheeled "Sokolov" Mounts reminiscent of Dr. Zhivago. These aluminum beauties comprise cap and lugs and have hand painted hammer and sickles. These weapons were discovered in Finland where they had been stored in military arsenals since they were captured by the Finns during the Russo-Finnish War (or Winter War; 1939-40). Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 Does it have the Rally Stripes of 1019th Rifle Regiment? I would also be particularly interested in Maxim '57', with the black letter on a red background '57', that was operated by Hero of the Soviet-Union 'Pavel Rattatsky' in the Oranienbaum Pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrNoobie Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 will the full version have the wheels modelled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Juzzy Posted September 13, 2002 Author Share Posted September 13, 2002 Andreas - I've only seen examples marked up 01, on a orange field with rear mounted air-horn, attrributed to a rifle brigade under Marshal Lee, Belgrade 1945. Does this count? Mr. Noobie - I believe a hand painted Sokolov chassis will be an optional extra in the official CM:BB Ladder Players expansion set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 You boys have waaaaaaaaay too much time on your hands. I think you better get out and spade the garden before winter sets in. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Juzzy Posted September 13, 2002 Author Share Posted September 13, 2002 Aaaaaaaawwwwwwww...we was only playing guv... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 Originally posted by Michael emrys: You boys have waaaaaaaaay too much time on your hands. I think you better get out and spade the garden before winter sets in. MichaelWell, can you prove that Rattatsky or the Maxim ES did not exist? I am a customer, therefore it must have existed. Why don't you go back to the Peng Thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 Originally posted by Andreas: Why don't you go back to the Peng Thread?I'm allergic to slime. Michael [ September 13, 2002, 07:34 AM: Message edited by: Michael emrys ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Juzzy Posted September 13, 2002 Author Share Posted September 13, 2002 BUDDA BUDDA BUDDA Kerching I am a customer therefore I am right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 I smell a Bren Tripod. Can we get T34 with big exhausts and flared track arches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 There was a T34 version, called the 'Monstertank' with extra high roller-wheels, used by 15th Guards Mech Corps to smash fascist tanks at warbond drives. It was usually shown in re-runs on Soviet cable into the 1970s. The tanks had a red/white colour scheme, and individual slogans on them: 'Eat my shortskys' 'Ossetians do it in the dark' and 'Vrooom vrooom' being the ones I came across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Juzzy Posted September 13, 2002 Author Share Posted September 13, 2002 Platform tracks and flared collar turret cupolas, now we're talking. VROOMski VROOMski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 'My government went to war and all I got was this lousy ATR' 3rd Guards Tank Army, Berlin, 1945 I'm sure that that was what those poor infantrymen were thinking when they dragged these dinosaurs into the streets of Berlin, although by that time they had become AMR*'s of course. * Anti-Material Rifle On the subject of Machineguns, I just realised that the DP was the only soviet MG that did not come with a wheeled mounting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarquon Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 There also was an experimental T-34 version equipped for night operations. It was painted in a black-on-black camo pattern (even the crew compartment) and the main gun was replaced with a 200 watts searchlight that had to be powered by means of a hand crank. Approximately 12 of those vehicles were built in 1943 but all were lost in night combat trials prior to Kursk and never found again. Source : some finnish internet page I came across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefly Posted September 13, 2002 Share Posted September 13, 2002 As usual, no doubt for nefarious political reasons, Andreas totally ignores Stalin's 1943 directive that all T-34s be equipped with the Mk. 3 fluffy dice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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