Havermeyer Posted July 7, 2000 Share Posted July 7, 2000 The germans and the mud are formidable in the scenario. I lost 1/2 my tanks to mud in one maneuvering attack. In another the german AT and panzers whacked just as many in short order. Haven't tried standing back and pounding the town to rubble-- but when panzers are plinking shermans at 700m it is pretty tough. Greath scenario-- but I want more arty as the americans. ------------------ "That's some catch, that Catch-22." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Bailey Posted July 7, 2000 Share Posted July 7, 2000 It is a great scenario if you are driving those Panthers. Not so good for Ami's... has anybody won it as the American? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havermeyer Posted July 7, 2000 Author Share Posted July 7, 2000 I've attempted twice to get the Americans in deep. A sweep on the right flank bogged 6 tanks, but I pushed as far as the church before losses mounted too high. The only reason I made it that far, was because the panthers were bogged. The AT bunker LIVED the whole game, as the germans killed my guys carring the satchel charges EVERY TIME. A thrust and cover up the middle road got me to the church as well, but the panthers and the AT bunker pounded my tanks. The reinforcements are merely cannon fodder for the panthers, distract them a little while while the AT bunker kills the rest. Again, the guys with the satchel charges died. I still lost 4 tanks to mud, and 2 tanks to first round fire. While the germans have some nice AT weapons, the best weapon is mud. The left flank is death. The general wants Singling-- I'll have to give it to him as tinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierTreadHead Posted July 7, 2000 Share Posted July 7, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by James Bailey: It is a great scenario if you are driving those Panthers. Not so good for Ami's... has anybody won it as the American?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I managed to get a tactical victory by attacking on my right with one infantry and two tank platoons. Also launched a holding attack up the middle with the reamaing tanks and infantry. VERY slow going and I lost three tanks to general mud. Gotta love those 76mm armed sherms. They make short work of the German armor. The bunker covering the town sqaure was a tough nut to crack. Ended up in a duel between three tanks verus the bunker. Lost one tank destroyed and one gun kill, but we got the sucker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatherof6 Posted July 8, 2000 Share Posted July 8, 2000 I agree. I don't think the American's have much of a chance in this one. In my blind PBEM game with me as Germans, it wasn't even close even though my opponent is very experienced. I was very curious to see him scouting my entreched positions with tanks until I saw how little infantry he had after our game was over. I don't know if T-Mo (the scenario designer) hangs out here but I know Wild Bill does. Any comments or suggestions for us Lt. Col Abrams wannbees out here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastables Posted July 8, 2000 Share Posted July 8, 2000 Abrams lost over a coy of shermans in exechange for 1 jadgpanzer IV and 3 panthers at Singling, not sure how he could help you at all. Well not Abrams, just his coy commanders. [This message has been edited by Bastables (edited 07-08-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havermeyer Posted July 9, 2000 Author Share Posted July 9, 2000 Tried the stand and pound... lost no tanks to mud and no tanks over 10 turns to killers-- knocked down a lot of buildings. But when trying to push into the city, I lost all but one tank on the middle road of death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Bailey Posted July 10, 2000 Share Posted July 10, 2000 Can't stand and pound. Panthers will kill you at L/R. On a double blind, its crazy to send in the Shermans without scouting the town first. With the benefit of knowing the Germans are light on infantry, its easier to rush in the Shermans, but this approach only offer a small chance of victory. Tough scenario, would like to see a bigger map that offers more flanking, driving room on higher, and drier ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARCHANGEL Posted July 14, 2000 Share Posted July 14, 2000 I fought it roughly the same way (or so it seems) that HOOSIER TREAD HEAD did. Tanks and infantry up the right side and converging on the two rows of small buildings there. The Security squads were destroyed or run off. I DID have major bog problems but usually, after a few turns, the tanks were able to extricate themselves. Meanwhile they could still fire on the right side of things and were clear of most harm. When they get free I send them up and/or paralell to the road, with the infantry clearing each and every structure until they meet up with infantry and tanks coming in the road/row of small buildings in the center/right of the map...tho caution is totally necessary there because the bunkered 75mm has some damn good killing opportunites thru the very limited LOS it has there. I also sent a tank and a squad up the road on the left center and got creamed badly by the hidden gun on the left side...the wooden bunker wasn't a happy surprise either. Anyway, the two forces (right and center/right) converged and the bunkered 75mm was taken out by a rifle squad...the gun behind that was taken out by a tank which was on the right flank of that advance just as security...later he took out three more German tanks that popped up in the right corner and would have been in a great position to come up behind everyone if the AO wasn't covered. (It was a hell of a good fight too...at less than 100 meters this Sherman kicked ass ...I replayed it several times, hooting and hollering and planning to send the TC and crew home for an MOH (TC) and DSC (crew) not to mention a war bond tour with Betty Grable.) When the reinforcements arrived I sent them to the left (from the starting point) to get that errant gun and bunker/mg...they all got bogged but managed to kill the bunker/mg, gun and a few more German tanks that showed up over there... I had lots of losses but I eeked out a victory. I played it again with ALLIES at 25% more, which ,IMO is more appropriate...even if the scen is historically based. Hell of a fight tho...hell of a fight...with or without extra troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlander Posted July 17, 2000 Share Posted July 17, 2000 I just finished a double blind PBEM of this scenario. However, I am waiting for the results file back tonight to see the final score. I suspect a draw with myself (Americans) on the low point side, although given my casulty levels I wouldn't be suprised if the Germans get a minor victory. My plan was as follows: 2 76 and a 75 Sherman moving wide left, 4 Shermans(1 76) with the 2 squad platoon moving wide right, and the rest advancing up the middle towards the town square. I lost a 75 Sherman and the 105 Sherman in the middle field early on. On the left, 1 of the 76's bogged down before it had gone 50m. The two 76's quickly spotted a Stug and a Panther and took both out. I send the 75 Sherman heading for the road on the far left. It was forced to button up (probably by an MG bunker, which it took out), but then got hit 3 times by the gun (which it never saw) - gun hit, track hit, kill. By now terrified of bogging I advanced the remaining mobile 76 to the end of the center-left road. A few turns later a Panther showed up on the other end of that road, and took out both of the 76's. Thus ended my left flank. On the right, my 76 got bogged quickly (every bog down I had resulted in immobilization) towards the rear of the map, out of sight of anything, and sat the rest of the game out. Of my three other Shermans, 1 made it halfway across the plain before bogging, a 2nd made it to the edge of the scattered trees, and was taken out by a Stug, and the third was within 20m of the road when it bogged down. It then got into a fight with a light gun (see my topic on tank vs AT gun through house) which it finally took out by blowing up the intervening house (with my infanty squad inside!) This bogged Sherman eventually took out the Stug also and fell later to the reinforcing German tanks. My infantry on this side made it to the edge of town, and occupied 1 large building and the victory building, but was too shot up to proceed any further. In the center I had two tanks immobilized I believe by artillery fire, and the others advanced behind the infantry up the line of houses along the road. The infantry fought its way up to the square, but the pillbox got a tank or two, and the Panther had now positioned itself to take a few out too. I tried an end around with my last mobile 76 Sherman, and one 75 Sherman. The 75 finally got the Panther as it was repositioning. I started to send my reinforcements up the road and peeled a few off towards the right, of which one died from a TD, and the other retreated. In the center both my two tanks which had flanked the square got taken out in the same turn by a TD (those things are really hard to kill - must have clanged a dozen shots off of them). I finally got it with my last mobile Sherman on the last turn. By this time I had gotten a squad and a half into the church, and one with explosives was able to take out the pillbox (I expended most of my artillery on the pillbox to no avail) At end game I had one mobile Sherman, 4 immobilzed Shermans, and maybe about 30 infantry left not including crews. Will post the score when I get it. A real tough one for the Americans with the soft ground and little infantry. Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastables Posted July 18, 2000 Share Posted July 18, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by James Bailey: Can't stand and pound. Panthers will kill you at L/R. On a double blind, its crazy to send in the Shermans without scouting the town first. With the benefit of knowing the Germans are light on infantry, its easier to rush in the Shermans, but this approach only offer a small chance of victory. Tough scenario, would like to see a bigger map that offers more flanking, driving room on higher, and drier ground.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You don't want to see a bigger battle field, because if you did you'd have to deal with another Panther Zug and the rest of the StuG Zug 1200m away in hull down positions. The German's Welschoff farm position would make a already tough battle un-winnable from the USA side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlander Posted July 18, 2000 Share Posted July 18, 2000 To finish up with my game report, as suspected, I ended up on the low side of a draw 52 to 48. I held the center and right objective flag, and the Germans held the left flag. Another turn or two could have made the differance, as the Germans had nothing but a few vehicle crews on the left side, and very little else left at all (one remaining TD with a damaged gun). All in all a good tight game, but those ground conditions are enough to make you scream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago Boy Posted July 20, 2000 Share Posted July 20, 2000 I played as the Germans and won pretty handily. That pillbox nocked out 7 Shermans. I lost my 1st Panther to a US 76mm Sherman-ouch!!! 2nd Panther got bogged on a reverse slope but still managed to pick off US Infantry in the woods. I tried to flank the US Armor with a Stug on the left flank but it bogged and presented a beautiful flank shot to the 4th armored lads and yes they will be weeping in Berlin tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelWeenie Posted July 20, 2000 Share Posted July 20, 2000 Couldn't win (lost too many tanks to bogging) until I saw a thread about how to avoid it: Don't use the FAST command in wet conditions! Use MOVE or HUNT. Doing this, I won handily the first time using the right flank with a minor feint up the middle with no tanks lost to bogging. Of course, I may have just gotten lucky... ------------------ "Belly to belly and everything's better" - Russian proverb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abrams Posted July 21, 2000 Share Posted July 21, 2000 Hi Guys, I played vs the German computer and had a Tactical Victory. I owned the town and the left sidfe of the map.I was in process of working to the right side and removing the last German Armor when the game ended. I ran most of the US Armor "Hell Bent" right up the road with infantry going for a wild ride. I am sure vs a human it would not have beem so good. Thje results seem right. Abrams was feeling a tad cocky at the time and thought 1/2 of a Combat Command would work. It would be nice to substitute a full Combat Command onto this map and have a go at it . Abrams out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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