Cameroon Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 Ok, someone has gotten a German victory out of this. I'm sure of it. I just don't have a clue how to manage the same. I can't come up with any workable tactics to dig the Soviets out. The best I've managed is a tactical defeat (69/31 I believe). Hardly encouraging So, anyone got any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 Originally posted by Cameroon: Ok, someone has gotten a German victory out of this. I'm sure of it. I just don't have a clue how to manage the same. I can't come up with any workable tactics to dig the Soviets out. The best I've managed is a tactical defeat (69/31 I believe). Hardly encouraging So, anyone got any suggestions?I will give it a try and post back here tomorrow with the results... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalar Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 Cameroon, congrats on the Tac defeat. I just got waxed 5-95 by the AI. I have never been so frustrated w/ the unit commands! Spoiler: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1st, the set up is on the ridiculous side-- I would never split a VERY small force up into 3rds to tackle unknown defensive assets dug in in undetermined positions. (Bobby Lee knew exactly where Hooker was at Chancellorsville!--and it wasn't snowing!) You'd think we'd at least start w/ prior knowledge of the 'old' German positions. The set up boxes are very restrictive. Not having played it before, I kept the default setup. 2nd, I ordered the rifle units to alternately move/fire/advance, but again and again after I area targeted possible positions, the men hit the deck when ANY nearby fire was heard, and to compound the issue, they then began to crawl/sneak until exhausted or dead from Soviet fire they wouldn't return! :confused: Often, the infantry began sneaking on their own, always leading to exhaustion. AACCKK is an understatement! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalar Posted September 30, 2002 Share Posted September 30, 2002 Cameroon and I are still waiting to read a victorious German AAR on this one...Anyone? Bueller? It took a lot of guts for me to post my 5-95 *shellacking* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
second amendment Posted September 30, 2002 Share Posted September 30, 2002 Kalar my thoughts exactly. spitting up of forces instead of one big attack on the flank and rolling up said flank . I dont get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted September 30, 2002 Share Posted September 30, 2002 Originally posted by second amendment: Kalar my thoughts exactly. spitting up of forces instead of one big attack on the flank and rolling up said flank . I dont get it.Because that is how the Germans did it. Try probing with a half squad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M38 Posted September 30, 2002 Share Posted September 30, 2002 I'm glad I'm not the only one. I've tried three times *@&^#%@$ the friggin thing is driving me nuts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yank Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 Geez, anybody with a victory yet? Three attempts, and three defeats here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameroon Posted October 1, 2002 Author Share Posted October 1, 2002 Originally posted by Berlichtingen: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by second amendment: Kalar my thoughts exactly. spitting up of forces instead of one big attack on the flank and rolling up said flank . I dont get it.Because that is how the Germans did it. Try probing with a half squad...</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 Originally posted by Cameroon: Then they were out of their freak'n minds Err... they won... handily One advantage they had that the game denies you is that they had crawled close enough to identify the enemy positions before the Soviets knew they were there. That is why you need to use a half squad to try to get the Soviets to give away their positions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalar Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Berlichtingen, I'll give the split squads a try. I considered that tactic as my previous platoons' blood turned into ice on the frozen steppe... The biggest problem I had wasn't firing on the Soviets, it was the movement in the snow leading to *quick* exhaustion. I'll try it again sometime before the weekend and I'll post back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalar Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Ok, I tried it again. I don't like to replay scenarios because of the prior knowledge...HAHAHA! I lost again, 5-95. A complete repeat of the first effort. (Berlichtingen, I will email you my pics. In fact, I believe we are nearly neighbors, maybe I'll invite myself over to your house and you can give me the winning tour of this scenario.) A short rehash: (I'd post the pics but I don't know how and don't have a website to upload them to.) 1. I made an effort to be extra cautious and patient. 2. I split the squads and gave each half a sneak/closing turn and a resting turn, aiming to cut down the exhaustion. I know the assualt half should have done all the closing, while the support half hung back, but the fatigue factor is just to overwhelming. 3. My intent was to roll up the position, foxhole by foxhole, fairly standard conquer by applying all of my firepower to just a fraction of the defenders. All went well until first contact. A defender just popped up, capped a split squad completely, and caused every other attacking unit to grovel face down in the snow, and begin to sneak outrageous distances while forgetting any attempt to smother the opposing position with fire. The behavior of the 'veterans' was actually cowardly. This was repeated at all three strongpoints. I tried to rally the troops, to give suppressive fire orders, to get grenades, flames or explosive bundles in the foxholes. I succeeded in driving the Soviets from exactly 2 foxholes. In return, each platoon broke, panicked, became exhausted, and generally refused to mount any coordinated attack. When the battle was over, and I lost by the same humiliating margin as the first try, I decided to look over the map to see what I was really up against. Much to my surprise, I never engaged any more than 25% of the defenders. My men were too busy crawling in the snow, panicked like schoolgirls. Cameroon's challenge stands: Show us an Axis Victory with scenario default's in play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameroon Posted October 2, 2002 Author Share Posted October 2, 2002 Originally posted by Berlichtingen: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Cameroon: Then they were out of their freak'n minds Err... they won... handily One advantage they had that the game denies you is that they had crawled close enough to identify the enemy positions before the Soviets knew they were there. That is why you need to use a half squad to try to get the Soviets to give away their positions</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shades Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 This was one of my first scenarios I played and found out the hard way how effective the MG's are n close assault. Mg's taking out whole squads in one turn. I was also suprised how easily the vets routed. I lost the first time(wiped out) and had to replay just to see if I can better it. I did get a victory(tactical I believe) but I don't have the AAR saved to show you, so I will play it again for proof. I did not have control of the middle hill but did have the outer flags. I brought my troops up the roads on both sides of the map by placing them at the far ends of the set up zones. Moving each squad on move to contact orders only from scattered tree/woods to scattered/woods area along the road as much as possible(on each side of road). Once I got a unit safely in a tree area, I would take turns using one as covering fire as the other unit would go for a new position. If there was contact and a unit could not sight target an enemy, I would try and get a area fire as close as possible. The Russians break pretty easily and once they do their toast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Originally posted by Kalar: Cameroon's challenge stands: Show us an Axis Victory with scenario default's in play.Ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Ok, what I do in this one... Use a half squad to scout ahead. All I'm trying to do is get a feel for where Ivan is. After I have an idea where the Soviets are, I use move to contact to move to the road (and the cover of the trees). I move to a point that I suspect the Soviets are not at (remember, visibility is very short ranged, so you can make it to the road without being spotted. From there it is just leap frogging down the side of the road toward the VLs. Mostly using move to contact with the occasional sort assault or advance. If a unit breaks, I don't worry about it as the HQs are good and vets rally quickly (if in command). If a unit gets tired, I do not move it for a couple of turns. Almost always comes down to the wire, and almost never less than a draw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameroon Posted October 2, 2002 Author Share Posted October 2, 2002 WOOOHOOOOO, someone other than the scenario designer did better than a loss. Its just an added bonus that I managed to do it. I still say you've got uber-veterans on your machine Berlichtingen If I leap frog down the treelines, then the first guy to open up on anyone pins pretty much anyone else in the trees. Heck, even my own troops firing at the enemy causes negative morale effects to my guys. Still, I've managed to beat it once, so I'm happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 Originally posted by Cameroon: I still say you've got uber-veterans on your machine BerlichtingenPerhaps you are right... I played it a couple of more times and got major victories both times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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