Pz IVs against Shermans

[reinald@berlin.com]

I'm playing the player-made "Bloody Buron" op as the German player (Panzer-Meyer). Got lots of Pz IVs, but they get slaughtered by the Brit/Canuck Sherms (and occasional Wolverines) by a rate of about 1:2.

Is this just the way it goes cause the Sherman is superior?

I think, tactically, I'm not making too many mistakes. My Pz IVs share LOS, I'm getting the Sherms from the side, but they just fire back and BOOM. There goes my Nazi-tank.

The higher the distance, the worse I do.

[CombinedArms]

My first suggestion would be: don't judge too much from a single battle--there are a lot of variables, including luck, that can influence the outcome of a single battle. Long experience suggests that the Sherman and PzIV are in a state of fairly close parity, with some small but significant advantages on either side. Learning to work those advantages while minimizing disadvantages can lead to victory.

1. Both tanks can readily kill one another. It's generally a question of who gets in the first shot.

2. The Sherman (short 75, vanilla) has slightly better armor, overall, but the PzIV has a better gun--more accurate and with more penetrating power. Over time, the PzIV will win more long range encounters than it will lose.

3. The Sherman has some advantages at shorter ranges--specifically a faster turret and ability to shoot more accurately on the move. It also has more MGs and a bit better HE blast, so it has some advantages vs. infantry.

4. OTOH, the PzIV is much less bog prone, so in damp or wet conditions it has a significant advantage.

Some general observations on PzIV vs. Sherman tactics:

1. There's no need to manuever for side shots with a PzIV. It can kill Shermans from the front. With the Sherman's fast turret, if you happen to miss your side shot, the Sherm will turn its turret quickly and get of the next shot. That shot just might kill you, esp at shorter ranges.

2. Better, therefore, to go for longer range face offs, where the PzIV's more accurate gun can work to advantage.

3. Try to fight your tanks in teams of two or more. In a long range face off, that can give you two tanks firing on one. In a case like this, where the first hit will lead to a kill more often than not, that's a significant advantage. If you're losing long range face-offs, it might just be because more Shermans are firing at your PzIVs than the other way around.

4. Fire where possible from hulldown positions. This is controversial with the PzIV, since it's turret armor (exposed in hulldown) is its weakest point. But my view is that it's better to minimize the overall hit chance. 2-3 PzIVs firing at ranges above 800m from hulldown positions on a single exposed Sherman are going to kill it w/o loss more often than not--that I can guarantee you.

[ December 07, 2002, 10:54 AM: Message edited by: CombinedArms ]

[Redwolf]

The original post is missing info like range, crew quality and what kinds of Shermans.

Anyway, I found that in most CMBO tank fights the faster turret is pretty decisive. It make the owner aquire a target much faster. Even when the original facing isn't that off it make a noticable difference.

[ December 07, 2002, 11:16 AM: Message edited by: redwolf ]

[reinald@berlin.com]

Range: 1.000m and up; my crews are a mixture ranging from conscripts to experts; GB/CAN crews are mostly regulars. Sherms are IIs, M4s and Vs.

[reinald@berlin.com]

Found out what I did wrong by playtesting. Am still a newbie - it seems.

Got much better results paying attention to hull down positions. Used bocage to great advance and killed 3 reg Sherms out of a dozen strong horde with a single conscript IVG without losing it. Found that shoot-and-scoot behind a hedgerow works good for me.

[Skolman]

You should force the shermans to button up...possibly use your MG´s to distrakt enemy fire...then your tanks will kill them much easier.

[reinald@berlin.com]

Done all of that. Brought light mortars on them to force the hatches closed. That's why I grew irritated.

However, there seems to be a more subtle problem. I got the CDV version of the game (i.e. German language). It says "Wanne kaputt" (= hull destroyed) when it should say "Teilverdeckte Stellung" (= hull down; hull partly covered).

I got the game for about a month now and have been wondering about all those tanks driving around with hulls kaputt

That's why I was indifferent towards hull down positions.

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by reinald@berlin.com:

However, there seems to be a more subtle problem. I got the CDV version of the game (i.e. German language). It says "Wanne kaputt" (= hull destroyed) when it should say "Teilverdeckte Stellung" (= hull down; hull partly covered).

I got the game for about a month now and have been wondering about all those tanks driving around with hulls kaputt

That's not meant to describe your tank's status, but CDV's status.

[reinald@berlin.com]

Aye, they're pretty ****ty judging from their assortment (Wet Attack, Sudden Strike, ...), but info about financial troubles of CDV would be new to me.

[Redwolf]

Mm ... "status". I think I chose the wrong word. Sorry I am no native speaker of english.

What I meant is they are sons of bitches or in my native language "Schweinepriester"

[ December 08, 2002, 10:51 AM: Message edited by: redwolf ]

[reinald@berlin.com]

Oh, they weren't nice to our two anti-industry-establishment battlefront-heroes?

Schweinepriester I get it - English ain't my first language either, but German is.

[Kanonier Reichmann]

Reinald. You might want to email Madmatt direct with that "bug" you have with your CDV version of CMBB. I'm sure BFC would be horrified if they knew that any hull down vehicle was giving the message of "hull destroyed".

Regards

Jim R.