DerZug Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 anyone have this game? i just picked it up and its amazying. wile i was playing it i thought, wouldent it be awsome if there was a game that had the Hudge strategic depth of HOI and the 3d magic of CMBB? like you control your armee's liek in HOI declare war on other countrys, place your panzer divisions were you want them to attack and fight your major battles in 3d liek CMBB. sorta similar to Medieval Total war if anyone has played it, but in a historical WWII setting. wouldent that be awsome? its one thing that i hate about cmbb, there is no dynamic campaign system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JunoReactor Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Uh oh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wacky Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lassner.1 Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 *lights pipe and pulls up chair* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrapin Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Originally posted by DerZug: wile i was playing it i thought, wouldent it be awsome if there was a game that had the Hudge strategic depth of HOI and the 3d magic of CMBB?Well, that's kind of the problem isn't it? You can't really DO a game with HOI's scope with CMBB tactical gameplay, and 3D hampers gameplay in truly large-scale strategic games like HOI or Europa Universalis (it would just be eye candy, nothing more). Since you evidently have both, enjoy both in their own ways, but I don't think they can be effectively combined. The difference in scope is too broad. Just, geographically and "space" wise, CMBB's smallest unit is a square meter (maybe smaller), HOI's smallest geographic unit is a PROVINCE!! (!!!!!) :eek: sorta similar to Medieval Total war if anyone has played it, but in a historical WWII setting.Actually, it's nearly NOTHING like M:TW. HOI is the tank version of Europa Universalis (same dev), and takes place at a much higher level than M:TW, which is why M:TW can do 3d without hampering the gameplay (see above). I'm a huge Paradox Entertainment fan since EUI, they're a great developer. The one thing that Europa Universalis II and HOI have over CMBB, is the greatest soundtracks of any game designed, Ever. Worth it for the music alone. [ December 15, 2002, 09:04 PM: Message edited by: Terrapin ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaker Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 These two games are as completely different to each other as apples are to oranges. CMBB is more on tactical side of things. HoI is strategic (big picture). We shouldn't even draw comparisons between the two games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Oh oh, I do love these Holiday drama scenes so. Marge, MARGE! Get a beer Hon and some pretzels... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarquon Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Medieval is nice for an evening or two. Sadly, the AI can't fight it's way out of a wet paper bag. Nice graphics. Uninstall. Sorry. EU II is nice for three or four evenings, but the AI-Napoleon constantly fights his way out of a wet paper bag, is quite content with that and retreats. Nice graphics. Yawn. Uninstall. Sorry. HOI is nice for an evening or two, until you realize that the AI doent't even know the difference between a wet paper bag and an Advanced Thing-on-a-Spring Radar Site. It is incapable of amphibious invasions. It is incapable of using aircraft. It seldom moves ground units. I saw Germany declare Vichy France in 1938 (by random event, obviously), then doing *nothing* at all until '42 (uninstall time for me). I recently posted more HOI rantings in the General Forum. If you don't believe me, read the 'Constructive Criticism' area in the official Paradox forum. It's ridiculous. My 2 cents: - either : proper AI programming takes a lot more time than the current profit margin in strategy games allows for. Even CM isn't perfect and only so much fun vs. the AI in it's current state (read recent threads and how it's going to be improved in it's next incarnation). - or : the current idea with game developers is that players want to *win*. The frustration threshold (germanism, please suggest a better term) is so low that loosing (losing, lousing, lusing, lowsing, too loose lautrec) a game puts off most customers. Damn those kids. Maybe both. Anyway, I look forwards to my boardgame session next friday night. And the next CMBB PBEM file. Jörg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Originally posted by Zarquon: Medieval is nice for an evening or two. Sadly, the AI can't fight it's way out of a wet paper bag. Nice graphics. Uninstall. Sorry. EU II is nice for three or four evenings, but the AI-Napoleon constantly fights his way out of a wet paper bag, is quite content with that and retreats. Nice graphics. Yawn. Uninstall. Sorry. HOI is nice for an evening or two, until you realize that the AI doent't even know the difference between a wet paper bag and an Advanced Thing-on-a-Spring Radar Site. It is incapable of amphibious invasions. It is incapable of using aircraft. It seldom moves ground units. I saw Germany declare Vichy France in 1938 (by random event, obviously), then doing *nothing* at all until '42 (uninstall time for me). I recently posted more HOI rantings in the General Forum. If you don't believe me, read the 'Constructive Criticism' area in the official Paradox forum. It's ridiculous. My 2 cents: - either : proper AI programming takes a lot more time than the current profit margin in strategy games allows for. Even CM isn't perfect and only so much fun vs. the AI in it's current state (read recent threads and how it's going to be improved in it's next incarnation). - or : the current idea with game developers is that players want to *win*. The frustration threshold (germanism, please suggest a better term) is so low that loosing (losing, lousing, lusing, lowsing, too loose lautrec) a game puts off most customers. Damn those kids. Maybe both. Anyway, I look forwards to my boardgame session next friday night. And the next CMBB PBEM file. JörgI'm a mac guy so please forgive me Is there a Multiplayer option in HOI Can a German Player play against a human British/American/Russian player? Just curious sorry to hear the AI in HoI is so lousy is it really THAT bad? People say the CMBB AI is bad but I don't think it is all that bad?? :confused: -tom w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nippy Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 People say the CMBB AI is bad but I don't think it is all that bad?? CMBB's AI is a double edge sword. On one hand is is brian dead on the attack yet very capable and very stuborn on the defence. Thankfully, user made battles (and my nifty QB making Guide *hint* *hint*) can help offset the shortcomings of the AI. In the Grand scheme of things though, the AI is good when compaired to 99% of the other games out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JunoReactor Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 I. About the subject of the thread. I agree with the original poster here. CM series can benefit from having a superstructure which connects operations. Call it a "dynamic campaign system" if you will, but what I really wouldn't mind seeing is some role playing elements that would give me the impression of a war going on around me. The scale need not be huge - small operations can be represented this way. Attempt to relieve Stalingrad pocket, or a pincer of Citadel make good examples. The basic idea is to have a strategic map (representing say, 25x25 kms) with a campaign AI generating a string of QBs against itself on premade maps, and allowing the player to choose from a list of available missions as often as he chooses to participate. With historical TOEs and some AI scripting, this can be a quite exciting and historically plausible roleplaying experience. If kept simple, this would enchance rather than distract the "meat" of CM experience. Might be worthwhile to consider for CMII. II. About AI. One thing I really enjoy about CM's AI is that it is unpredictable as AIs go. Some of it is undoubtedly due to game's complexity (the poor thing has to go through lots of variables before it does anything, more the merrier) and some due to relative scarcity of information about what's going on in the game (FOW-induced) compared to most other games. Besides, I am an optimist. When I see enemy armor exposing its broadside to me when it is clearly suicidal for it to do so, I always think the AI does it for a good reason of its own. So I take my chance all the more eagerly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannibal Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 A new patch for Hearts of Iron has come out .From what people are saying the A.I is much tougher now . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Originally posted by Hannibal: A new patch for Hearts of Iron has come out .From what people are saying the A.I is much tougher now .where can I read about that? is there a HoI forum or "review" of the patch? This game HoI makes be think twice about being "stuck" on a Mac I love my Macs but HoI sounds like fun AND so Does OFP but its only on PC as well bummer. Thank Goodness for Combat Mission the two of them are the ONLY games I play (ok I admit it I dabble in AoE II for fun ) -tom w [ December 15, 2002, 11:18 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TikiBob Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 HOI is much, much better now but it's still a patch away from being a truly great game. They've gotten to where it's fun again. But after another patch or two it'll be what we all dreamed it would be. Luckily with paradox that shouldn't be too long in coming. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sgt. Emren Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Link to HOI Forum Don't plan to get this game until another 2 or 3 patches have come through! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hortlund Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 I have HoI and with the new 1.02 patch it is really good. There are a couple of relatively minor issues left to fix (arent there always) but now the game is playable and challenging (if you play at the highest difficulty-level). I think the limit for multiplayer is 8 players, and you can play whatever nation you want (even the really crappy ones like Abbessinia or Bulgaria or whatever). A taste of what 1.02 is like: I'm playing a game as Germany right now, its in the middle of September 39 (I'm playing the 36-48 campaign) and this game has been the most intense, nerve wrecking experience I've ever had with a strategic-level game. As my panzers were tearing through the Polish lines, France did the unexpected and attacked into southern Germany. Something like 15-20 French divisions came charging out from the maginot line. I only had some cavalry divisions and some militia divisions covering that front (because, hey, we all know how the French suck...right). My poor second line units were quickly routed, and whats worse, a counterattack with four of my good 1st line infantry divisions was beaten back with heavy losses. So now Im scrambing units from the Polish front to build a hasty new defensive line around Munich and Hannover. And the damn russians seems satisifed with just waiting for me to mop up Poland before they demand their half in accordance with the Molotov-Ribbentrop agreement. Meanwhile, my poor Luftwaffe is stretched to the breaking point. British (and Canadian) strategic bombers are attacking targets in northern Germany 2-3 nights a week, at the same time the Polish airforce (!!) proved to be quite a challenge with 6 or 7 fighter squadrons more than I expected. So with half of my fighter squadrons facing the british bomber offensive, and the other half keeping the poles in check, I didnt really have alot of aircraft left when the French hit in the south. So now the French airforce is dominating the skies over southern Germany. The only bright spot is Bismarck, she managed to slip through the British lines together with the cruisers Deutschland and Graf Spree, and they are now wreaking havoc among the British convoy lines in the north atlantic. In two weeks they have sunk over 20 merchantmen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JunoReactor Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 That does sound like fun. Heck, did 1.02 manage all this difference, or do you think you're having a very exceptional game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hortlund Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 1.02 is a completely different game compared to 1.01. In 1.01 people were conquering the globe with Hungaria. In 1.02 people are having problems taking down France as Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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