Infantry Smoke

[Col Deadmarsh]

I'm still unclear as to why this isn't in the game. After all, Advanced Squad Leader saw it as an important element and had it in their game. And yet Battlefront says they don't have enough evidence it existed. What's up with that?

[Schrullenhaft]

Advanced Squad Leader isn't the best source for historical information on weapons and their employment during WWII. Smoke is already over-used and over-modelled in CMBO. It is too effective compared to real life (in terms of instantaneous effect and the near complete blocking of LOS for the amount of munition expended). While smoke grenades existed, they most likely weren't all that common and/or their effect was very limited. The smoke that these grenades would produce would be less than that of the smoke clouds you would see in CMBO.

[ July 12, 2002, 10:08 PM: Message edited by: Schrullenhaft ]

[rexford]

I have seen American infantry throw smoke grenades in war movies and in some actual footage. The actual use may be similar to Sherman 75mm gun use of smoke, the rounds were there but under the heat of battle use was forgotten or less than one would estimate based on availability.

Have there been any past threads on smoke use in CMBO that would be good reading for someone doing research on smoke effectiveness in the game.

I used Sherman 75mm smoke in one game to box in a Tiger II, which did not attempt to move through the smoke clouds that surrounded the tank. Eventually the Shermans ran out of smoke and had to face a Tiger II.

HC smoke, which is what American tanks in CMBO use, doesn't start to work much for over a minute, which is what happened in the game we played. HC base emission smoke has a minimum effective range of 850 yards, ranges shorter than that result in too much impact damage to the round I guess. Max range is 1600 yards.

ASL infantry smoke reduced the accuracy or effect of fire through or into the smoke hex, and the chance of using smoke was far from certain. A standard 4-6-7 German infantry squad has a 17% chance of using infantry smoke (which slows them down by 1 or 2 movement points, and prohibits any movement at all by a unit if they roll 6 on the placement roll with one dice). If three German infantry squads in one hex are going to run to better cover and try to cover their retreat, the chance of getting covering smoke is not too great.

If those three squads get one smoke grenade to work, it adds +2 to the rolls against them, which basically negates the -2 for moving in the open. But they run slower and there is a chance they may not move at all due to the smoke placement attempt.

ASL puts a maximum limit on smoke line of sight hindrance in one hex equal to +3.

ASL has a balanced view of smoke that makes it potentially available but its use is iffy and has disadvantages. We never used it alot.

[Sabotai]

Do you guys remember squad smoke usage in Steel Panthers? There was smoke everywhere, until they ran out that is, which was usually halfway through the game. I think smoke usage is OK in CM - not too much but still enough to be useful at times. Until we get real weather effects (wind, rain, etc.) this is the best we can hope for.

[PiggDogg]

If I recall correctly, in real life, smoke and expecially infantry smoke were not used to the extent allowed and generally misused in Squad Leader, ASL, etc.

In CMBO, I think that BTS decided to eliminate infantry smoke for the sake of historical correctness.

Cheers, Richard