Alright then, so you don't like the demo scenarios? Here's a solution:

[Sirocco]

I don't understand the negativity. People made suggestions because they loved CMBO, expect to love CMBB even more, but felt the demo could have done more. The more people said the same thing. That then became characterised as "whining". I don't understand why the whole thing got so wrapped up in machismo. :confused:

[Chad Harrison]

Thanks for the replies Stever, atleast we know how you all stand now

The whole reason for my original suggestion was because there seemed to be so much flak about the scenarios included, but no alternative solutions. If anything, I think some of us older CMer's are just getting antsy waiting for the full version. I know that I am.

Time may change things for the Demo, but once we all have CMBB in our mail box, this subject will disappear, never to reappear.

Chad Harrison

[Tarquelne]

The more people said the same thing. That then became characterised as "whining". I don't understand why the whole thing got so wrapped up in machismo. :confused: [/QB]

Ooo, ooo! I know!

1. Lack of contextual (or, really, "extra-textual") cues. Both in intrepreting messages and in expressing thoughts.

2. _Seemingly_ "endless" repetition of criticism("The more people said the same thing") without regard to already given explainations. Or, alternative, unwillingness to search forum for explaination before stating criticism.

3. Inability of some to distinguish or express the difference between "I think this could be better" and "I think this is bad."

4. Accusations that the critics/complainers are selfish, purile, or dishonest. Accusations that those siding with BFC are "fanboys" or worse.

...Same ol', same ol', really. Humans may know who to talk, but they aren't always all that good at it.

In my unofficial capacity as Layer of Blame, I do the Nose Thumbing Dance of Disdain in the direction of some of the "Fanboys" for inflaming the issue, and Ear Wiggling Dance of Derision over toward some of the "Whiners" for either failing to see that BFC has some good reasons for making the demo as they did, or for failing to even try to understand.

[Holdit]

For what my opinion's worth, as an early-ish CM player but only occasional poster, I can't see what all the fuss is about. I suspect, though, that there may be something psychological going on in that perhaps some people expected to get the same rush from this demo as we did from the CMBO demo.

I thought too that the scenarios weren't as interesting as 'Valley of Trouble' and 'Chance Encounter' but then I realised that the CMBO scenarios were presented to us in the context of a brand new game - did I say game? - a brand new concept!

With the CMBO demo, the novelty was in your face; right up there in glorious 3D. With CMBB it's a lot more subtle, that's all. If you're a CMBO player, there's less to get excited about this time round because the demo is of a game that's already quite familiar ("3D? Of course it's bloody 3D... Tell me something to get me excited ..."). And before somebody has a pop, I am in no way being dismissive of the improvements and additions that have been made.

Or maybe the terrain's too uninteresting - well, welcome to Russia . Or perhaps it's the lack of sexy weaponry - I don't recall anyone saying that they were looking forward to using 45mm anti-tank guns. I think this is a case of BTS looking a bit deeper than the mere obvious - and assuming that their customers can do so too, which is actually a bit of a compliment.

As far as I can see, the two scenarios in the CMBB demo do a good job of reproducing two of the mental images I had of the war in Russia: Russian infantry attacks against numerically inferior defender and German armoured thrusts against layered Soviet anti-tank defences. What more could you ask from a demo other than to demonstrate?

Hunker down in view 1 behind an AT gun in 'Citadel' and watch the panzers approach and you'll see a scene that's remarkably like to stock images of Kursk that we've all seen in the books - and the grassy doodads make it even better. As for Yare?/Stare?/the other one...well, I would imagine that the attack and defense skills necessary for that scenario will be necessary for many others too so they're worth working on.

Anyway, it works for me, and my processor is so slow I have time to make a cup of tea while it processes the turns, so it's even less stimulating!

[Diceman]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Just to make sure people understand...

Wargamer's Law #1 is wargamers bitch at anything and everything, no matter how lucky they are to be playing it. Wargamer's Law #2 is that if you get 10 wargamers in one room and ask them a single factual question you will get 15 different "#$&* you, I am right!" answers. Wargamer's Law #3 is that if you as 10 wargamers in one room a single question of opinion, you will get 34.5 "#$&* you, I am right!" answers, 5 bloddy lips, 2 brusised ribs, and 1 broken nose. And that is if the opinion being asked is not controversial

Steve

So this is what lurks behind the iron doors of the beta forum. :eek: