Frenchie Posted October 16, 2000 Share Posted October 16, 2000 I have recently acquired Combat Mission and while I am just starting to play it (I logged maybe 15 hours on it yet, plus I am new to ground warfare simulations, I used to play mostly flight sims, but CM has me hooked), I have a question about the air support. Reading the manual, I understand that I have no control over the aircraft or the targets they engage. But is there any way to actually see the aircrafts? I was playing a battle in which I am pretty sure there was air support (some enemy armor that was way out of my troops' LOS got knocked-out), but I was unable to actually see if there were any aircrafts around. Do I have to consider enemy armor exploding without my troops engaging them the only clue to the presence of friendly air support? What about enemy airplanes, how do I detect their presence to hide my troops in time and position my flak? Thank you in advance for your help... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterNZer Posted October 16, 2000 Share Posted October 16, 2000 You can't see 'em you can see their shadow i think, and you can hear their engines. I have NEVER EVER seen the buggers do anything PeterNZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ciks Posted October 16, 2000 Share Posted October 16, 2000 Yes, you can see only shadow of fighter. But here is question. Does having Anti-Aircraft gun in the area saves from air attacks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted October 16, 2000 Share Posted October 16, 2000 The amount of AA determines the likelyhood that the FBs will return for more strafing, and maybe also if they'll arrive at all in the first place. Then of course your AA may actually shoot down a plane or two... Note: The 88 and 90mm AA guns do not engage FBs, but flex MGs do. Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsmithcat Posted October 16, 2000 Share Posted October 16, 2000 ..one big point about F/B's...they may not arrive at all! Sucks eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted October 17, 2000 Author Share Posted October 17, 2000 Thank you everyone for your help. I will try to identify the signs of airplanes around (shadow, engine noises). As for the question if having AAA in an area prevents air attacks, I do hope that CM models the fact that a pilot will probably be alot less accurate on his bombing and straffing runs if he can hear the bullets striking his fuselage or the explosions chopping at his control surfaces... Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aardicus Posted October 20, 2000 Share Posted October 20, 2000 One quick note on airpower in Combat Mission. At one time I and my primary PBEM opponent held that airpower was useless, only included for historical purposes. That is until in a QB my airpower destroyed his KING TIGER as it was engaging my Jumbo He had been sitting in one spot for several turns in full view of my forces.( actually he and my Jumbo were "playing ping-pong"(his term for ricochet after ricochet)) In another it was useless except it bottled up my opponents(different person than from ealier) armor(maybe got a commander or two) until I saw it strafe an armored carrier causing the crew to abandon. So generally speaking it can have positive effects but is too unpredictable in just about every aspect.(i.e. when the heck is it gonna show up). Just my two cents... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashman Posted October 21, 2000 Share Posted October 21, 2000 Trust me, airpower DOES work. Currently in a PBEM game where my opponent's FB dropped a pair of bombs on a large building. Lost a 12-man squad, hvy MG crew, and a sharpshooter fighting in the building. Outside the building the same plane on the same turn knocked out a StuH 42 and a AAA halftrack. Not a good moment. Next turn it returned to strafed and kill another halftrack. Bloody flyboys! On the technical side, you can sometimes see the aircraft shadow as it passes by. If it knocks out something, reverse the tape a few seconds and click on the doomed unit. You will see a yellow line pointing upward tracking the flight of the aircraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest barrold713 Posted October 22, 2000 Share Posted October 22, 2000 A corallary to the previous post is that you can follow a plane by clicking on an AA unit in the area and if it is firing at the FB, you will see a red targeting line tracking it as well. Air support can be very effective and while the lack of control may be frustrating for some, I really like the level of uncertainty that has been incorporated in the game. ------------------ "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb discussing what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote" - Ben Franklin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertram Posted October 23, 2000 Share Posted October 23, 2000 Additional info: I just finished a QB in wich my opponent had an airplane. I noticed it by my Panther blowing up, and could 'see' it by the targeting line to the Panther (in replay). The plane passed three times (blowinfg up a halftrack the second run). In the after battle report it was reported as shot down. The Quad 20 mm AA I had (for anti-infantery purposes) was credited with the kill. Bertram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busboy Posted October 27, 2000 Share Posted October 27, 2000 I'd imagine, though have not yet confirmed that skill would effect the accuracy of the planes. They're under artillery if I recall, and I bet that a fighter bomber selected in "elite" skill would be alot more of a threat than a "conscript." What skill levels were being used in the above mentioned games, if anyone remembers? ------------------ busboy CO, 99th Dragons A Warbirds Squadron 'We will heat you up' "It is well that war is so terrible, else we would grow too fond of it." -Robert E. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dNorwood Posted October 29, 2000 Share Posted October 29, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by barrold713: Air support can be very effective and while the lack of control may be frustrating for some, I really like the level of uncertainty that has been incorporated in the game. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I have played only one scenario with FB and it turned what would almost certainly have been a big loss into a tie. I too appreciate the extra bit of "nail-biting" introduced by the "where the hell is my air support" factor (as well as the "how the hell could you miss him, you miserable hack" corollary). My opponent, on the other hand, is thouroughly down on air power, calling it the "Hand of God" in that (he feels) it either works or not for the side with it, and claiming that there is no response from the defender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pillar Posted October 30, 2000 Share Posted October 30, 2000 Assuming you have no AA, how do you "hide" your tanks etc. from the aircraft? How do you minimize their risk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted October 30, 2000 Share Posted October 30, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pillar: Assuming you have no AA, how do you "hide" your tanks etc. from the aircraft?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Place them in scattered trees. Close to buildings might help as well. Neither is fool-proof, but should enhance survivability. If you're playing Allies, then their flex MGs will act as AA also, unless the vehicle is buttoned. Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GravesRegistration Posted October 31, 2000 Share Posted October 31, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aardicus: One quick note on airpower in Combat Mission. At one time I and my primary PBEM opponent held that airpower was useless, only included for historical purposes. That is until in a QB my airpower destroyed his KING TIGER as it was engaging my Jumbo He had been sitting in one spot for several turns in full view of my forces.( actually he and my Jumbo were "playing ping-pong"(his term for ricochet after ricochet)) In another it was useless except it bottled up my opponents(different person than from ealier) armor(maybe got a commander or two) until I saw it strafe an armored carrier causing the crew to abandon. So generally speaking it can have positive effects but is too unpredictable in just about every aspect.(i.e. when the heck is it gonna show up). Just my two cents...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GravesRegistration Posted October 31, 2000 Share Posted October 31, 2000 oops sorry about that repeated message... I just wanted to comment on the fact that a king tigers 88 would not bounce off a M4jumbo.. it would be devastating... I hope CM is as accurate as ASL (advanced squad leader) I only have demo for now and it appears that someone finaly got it right. Combat Mission is the tactical wargame of the future. I am so stoked and my Full game should arrive any day now. Where do you all find opponents? Is there a chat room for CM? David Deresinski aka GravesRegistration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shipmonkey Posted November 8, 2000 Share Posted November 8, 2000 Every time I do the Villars-Bocage operation, I lose at least three panzer ivs to the damn british fb's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pham911 Posted November 8, 2000 Share Posted November 8, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Olle Petersson: Place them in scattered trees. Close to buildings might help as well. Neither is fool-proof, but should enhance survivability. If you're playing Allies, then their flex MGs will act as AA also, unless the vehicle is buttoned. Cheers Olle<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> German PSW 234/3's can also offer AA fire with MG's. Probably other German tanks can also, but I can only speak of personal experience with that one doing it. You're dead on the money with your suggestion that scattered trees provide concealment. Not only does this make sense(which is why I tried it in the first place after losing a ton of equipment on the planes first pass), but CM models it apparently quite well. The question I have about this is; Does hiding armor(the actual hide command) while in trees increase the odds of their not being spotted by the plane? Can planes see anything in wooded areas? Also, does firing at the plane make it more likely that you'll draw return fire? Anyone know how it works? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted November 8, 2000 Share Posted November 8, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pham911: (i) Does hiding armor ... increase the odds of their not being spotted by the plane? (ii) Also, does firing at the plane make it more likely that you'll draw return fire?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>(i) I don't think so. The "Hide" command is an order for "silent run", and aircraft pilots can't hear the vehicles anyway. (ii) Not in the tests I've done. The aircraft aim for a specific target when starting the approach, and then stick to it. It's possible, however, that anyone shooting at the aircraft is likely to become the target for the next strafing run. Best option, if available, is to have several units shooting at the aircraft at once, thereby functioning as a deterrant for follow-up attacks. Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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