Biltongs Campaign Rules for CMBB - 41 South ready for action

[JaegerMeister]

Anybody got OOBs for AG South's forces? I'd like to pick out a formation from it and assign that to my Billtong force for historical accuracy/interest.

Perhaps a global factor could be incorporated somewhere in the rules to increase the status of a unit? ie I'm reading the book by Leon Degrelle about the Belgian Walloon volunteers, who started off as a normal infantry unit, then raised in status to an assault Regiment, then finally in 1943 became a full SS Assault brigade with its own support armour etc. All this through its battle performance !

Someone on this thread mentioned adding auto-medals to the rules for performance, this is an excellent idea and why not add promotions for certain kill ratios/experience or number of succesful missions ?

Could the rules not expand the core force slightly, so that we could have an infantry company and a platoon of tanks/stugs/IG's with them?...that way both armour and infantry fans can be catered for.

These rules have definitely opened up the single player world against AI...well done Billtong and support team!

[Martin Rapier]

Originally posted by JaegerMeister:

Anybody got OOBs for AG South's forces? I'd like to pick out a formation from it and assign that to my Billtong force for historical accuracy/interest.

Comprehensive OBs down to platoon level (in some cases) for the entire German Army on 22nd June 1941 at:

http://www.freeport-tech.com/WWII/011_germany/41-oob/_41-oob.html

Just click on the various unit organisation symbols to drill down.

Cheers

Martin

[Sardaukar]

I'm halfway through converting rules to all armoured core. Now if I'd just get them work as I intended . I keep adding "neat" stuff when I should keep them "lean and mean"

Cheers,

M.S.

[SuperSulo]

Apache, those are some good points and some good questions...

Strange that you rarely got above 1000, you must have bad luck . In my 4 first ones, I got over 1000 with just my core + the air/arty part. Now I see why, for example in my 1'rd battle, I had 1000 Air/Arty, but only 225 (and that is MAX!)inf/support, so by NOT following the rules by the numbers, I get a bigger, more even, battle.

I had also increased the cost of my core force as they got better, but as you said, that only "punish" us as the allied gets more points too. From now on I will use the beginning core cost, and any experience they gain will be a bonus to me only, and not to the allied.

I use the scenario editor to set up my core force, it's a bit more work, but worth it in the end, imo.

[JaegerMeister]

Much obliged Rapier..thankyou.

Other guys may also be interested in checking this site out.

http://www.feldgrau.com/

[Scooby2003]

Originally posted by panzerwerfer42:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Scooby2003:

Hey..I've got a question!

I've noticed something a bit odd when filling out the CORE sheet... Doesn't the "Green Motorized Inf. Co" at 343 points have FOUR squads? (fourth being 2 HMG's and a Section HQ) In the core sheet there is room for three squads and I understood that the bottom section above the armor was reserved for scrounged units. Am I missing something?

Obviously, it would be easy just to write them in the vacant spot (since I have no scrounged units) but I think this indicates that I have made a mistake elsewhere...

Thanks!

Scooby!

There are two different version of the motorized infantry company. One has (Pz) after the battalion and one has (PzG). IIRC you want (Pzg) to get the intended core force. It should have 3 platoons with 4 squads or 4 platoons with 3 squads or something like that and no HMGs.</font>

[SuperSulo]

I think it's just the core sheet that's "wrong". Just add a line under the last platoon HQ, change platoon HQ to section HQ and add the MG's. Atleast, that's what I did

[Scooby2003]

Also a question about the 10 point experience cap.....

If I have an infantry squad that has gained more than 10 points of exp in a battle but has lost a member, do I apply the 10 exp. pt limit BEFORE i calculate the experience explained in NOTE 3?

For Example: (men left x exp) + (replacements x experience) divided by total men in unit = exp for unit...

If I had a squad with a lot of kills and 5 casualties and replacements with no experience.....

(5x25) + (5x0) / 10= 12.5 (which would be reduced to 10)

OR ..should it be....

(5x 10 ) + (5x0) / 10 = 5

I ask because I have a squad that inflicted huge casualties last battle. I realize you can customize the rules according to your tastes..just wondering what others do in this case.

ALSO, a question about panicking troops...

How do you track wether a unit ever panics? Is this experience reduction applied only if the unit is paniced at the end of the battle or each and every time they happen to panic? If it is every time, any suggestions on tracking it? I guess you just watch the replay movie focusing on one unit.....but I'm not sure.

Thanks

Scooby!

[ November 26, 2002, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: Scooby2003 ]

[Echo]

Someone needs to code a small program to spit all this out. These charts give me a headache.

[Apache]

Echo,

Code programme for what? There is an auto parameter sheet that will do the bulk of the calculations.

General

Having played around some I now opt for the version I suggested at 5 above (e.g. calculate Force points as per norm and modify the aux force points by the correct figure on assault, attack and probe to weaken the AI adantage a bit, but not completely. I use the green cost of the core in that case also and then find I always have enough to buy the core at their enhanced experience cost AND the modified aux forces). On the defence I use the cost of the core at the current experience and the aux as generated by the rules (on the basis that the AI is weaker on the attack and probably could do with all the help it can get).

[Ichthys]

Someone needs to code a small program to spit all this out. These charts give me a headache.

The AutoParameter sheet helps if you have Excel. Unfortunately I use OpenOffice at home, and so some of the functionality is missing. It also looks to me that it is rather difficult to modify the AutoParameter worksheet to implement alternative rule sets.

I am writing a Python program that implements the campaign rules. I started it with Wreck's rules for CMBO, but I should have the CMBB ruleset implemented in a few days. At that time I might release it to a few alpha-testers. It also should be fairly easy to provide multiple rule sets, once they are available.

-Andy

[Apache]

Can you not use the Excel viewer? I think it's a freebie isn't it?

[Apache]

Scooby,

AFAIK you total up the experience for the squad taking into account all scores (not forgetting the battle overall expereince gain which gets added to everyone), then multiply it by men remaining, then add replacements x their experience and divide by total in unit when at full strength.

Therefore, assuming a 10 man squad:

(5 x 25 = 125) + (5 x 0 = 0) = 125 /10 =12.5 (12 rounded down) after battle experience.

Super Sulo,

Not sure if youv've seen the word doc I mailed to Biltong. I think he may edit some of the FAQs we already have answers to and post it. If not, I can.

Another query that's not on the list is that surrounding burning/KO AFVs/Tanks etc. Perhaps need to make it clear that a KO'd tank gets counted only once rather once under KO AND once under burning (if that's the case).

[ November 26, 2002, 03:22 PM: Message edited by: Apache ]

[Biltong]

Hmm – lot of e-mail and lots of posts…

TG the guys on the team and this thread are so nice and understanding and patient and bright and pretty and…

Ok – back to what I’ve gotta do:

1. Find Maps

Done – 16 so far and more coming in at a steady flow… some really excellent ones as well.

2. Approach Depot designers for permission to use their maps.

Done – out of 14 that fall in the ’41 South’ category I got 6 OK’s and only 1 ‘NO’ ?!

I’ve only looked at some of them – 1 or 2 might not be suitable, but I doubt it.

3. Create diff Battle Types of existing Maps

Done – Took one of Manstein22’s maps and used it to create the 7 versions (Ax-As; -At; -Pr; Al-As; At; -Pr; ME).

All I did was to alter the Setup Zones, Flags (no & placement) and some terrain features so that you ‘hopefully’ have a different battle on each version of the map.

Nice map from Manstein – at first glance it's flat steppe terrain, but don’t underestimate it – lots of little hulldown spots and cover if you know how to look… also some eye candy… should make for a great improvement over the QB maps…

Just finished testing them and I'm quite impressed with how the AI reads the maps.

Thought of changing the rules to cater for the maps, but I think the maps must be a stand alone add-on as well.... Should be simple to impliment (T'morrow)...

Looks like there might be quite a bit of add-on's on the horison.. and I think it's better to keep the basic BCR simple so not to scare off newbies with a complex IBM Manual... Once they get going they can investigate the add-ons themselves and select what they like.

4. Compile 1st Map Pack and submit to SuperSulo

T’morrow

5. Implement & arrange hosting for Doc’s Medals & Injuries Version

Still under negotiations

6. Implement version control

T’morrow

Rule changes? What rule changes!? They are beautiful! They don’t need changing!! They are perfect!!!

To’morrow… To’morrow…. tadada… (low) To’mo.o.row…!

[ November 26, 2002, 05:23 PM: Message edited by: Biltong ]

[KG_AGCent]

OK, so I made it through Battle 1. With a company of green grunts and a Vet platoon to back them up. Two Pz 2c's and a 38T(e) backing up my armor I embarked on an Assault.

Turn 1: TacAI dumps 82mm preplanned barrage right where my company was set up. I spend the next 15 turns corraling the frightened sheeplings into something resembling a fighting force while the Vet platoon and the 6 tanks actually do the Assault.

They ran into a ridgeline nicely decorated with 6 bunkers, a trench system Pershing would have been proud of and 5 AT guns of various stripes.

I wiped them all out but lost 2 of my Core tanks in the process, one knocked out and one abandoned.

My question:

How do I get replacement tanks?

For that matter, will my squads always be full up barring an immediate attack or counter attack going into the next battle?

Do I just assign a chassis to my crew after they have recieved replacements and had the experience issue resolved?

How do I upgrade armor?

AG, out.

[StereoMike]

Well, i hope there's room for more programs to help generate battles as i'm working on a program as well to generate battles. Works quite well at the moment but still quite a few bugs to iron out.

[ November 27, 2002, 06:17 AM: Message edited by: StereoMike ]

[Pascal DI FOLCO]

Hi all,

I'm normally now part of the "improvements" team and proud of it , in charge of automating favor/exp calculations, but didn't make much (in fact nothing...) since 1 week due to RL commitments AND CMBB Pbem battles !

I'm now able to make some progress but ain't sure it has not been already done meanwhile !!

Biltong, what's the status ?

[Max BrauHaus]

The AutoParameter sheet helps if you have Excel. Unfortunately I use OpenOffice at home, and so some of the functionality is missing. It also looks to me that it is rather difficult to modify the AutoParameter worksheet to implement alternative rule sets.

The more the merrier! I'd like the automated parameters to be available to everyone, and I haven't tested if the Excel Viewer available at Microsoft can use my parameters spreadsheet. I also think automating the parameters is critical to deal with the calculations required to get the right balance.

For anyone interested, modifying the parameters (within the existing structure) is really rather easy:

1) The leftmost set of columns (on the Parameter Calcs sheet) represents the result of a particular role (after applying modifications). All you would need to do is modify the column that is displayed (column B, I think) after a lookup is performed.

2) As you look at one item (like Date) as a row, the first item is obviously explained above. The rest of the column pairs (roll and resulting modifier) are how changes in that item (i.e., Date) affect other things, like Weather. The modifiers themselves read directly from Biltong's rules. Date is complicated a little bit by the fact that some of the modifiers are based not just on month, but week and month. That requires an array of values, the first column being the first week, second column, second week, etc., and the rows coorespond the the month as shown in column B.

That may not turn out to be as easy as I make it sound, but look at it a little, and it may.

Applying additional modifiers to parameters would be more difficult for someone not involved with it as much as I am.

[Biltong]

That's it folks!

THREAD FULL!! PLEASE TAKE IT HERE:

Biltong's Rules 2nd Thread

Matt could you lock this one?

Thanx