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TIGER Docu on Hist Channel right now


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Thanks for the heads up El Guapo--that was a great documentary.

Some things that struck me as odd:

1) The narrator said that Tiger tanks didn't have problems with the Firefly because of it's thick armor. This is why most people including myself, before playing CM, thought that the Tiger was indestructable and yet its 100 mm of frontal armor isn't enough to deal with the Firefly in up close fights in CM. What gives? Do we know for certain about these armor tables? Is the History Channel incorrect here and talking out of their ass or are they just generalizing aobut the effectiveness of the Tiger tank?

2) One of the show's "experts" said the Tiger tank was the best tank the Germans had. Was this just hyperbole? I always thought the Panther was the best tank the Germans put out on the battlefield and comparable to only the T-34 of the Russians.

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<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Colonel_Deadmarsh:

Some things that struck me as odd:

1) The narrator said that Tiger tanks didn't have problems with the Firefly because of it's thick armor. This is why most people including myself, before playing CM, thought that the Tiger was indestructable and yet its 100 mm of frontal armor isn't enough to deal with the Firefly in up close fights in CM. What gives? Do we know for certain about these armor tables? Is the History Channel incorrect here and talking out of their ass or are they just generalizing aobut the effectiveness of the Tiger tank?

2) One of the show's "experts" said the Tiger tank was the best tank the Germans had. Was this just hyperbole? I always thought the Panther was the best tank the Germans put out on the battlefield and comparable to only the T-34 of the Russians.<hr></blockquote>

It sounds like the usual mix-up between the Tiger I and the King Tiger. Could they have possibly been talking about the latter? That would explain both of your dilemmas, I think.

Ari

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<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Colonel_Deadmarsh:

1) The narrator said that Tiger tanks didn't have problems with the Firefly because of it's thick armor.<hr></blockquote>

I suspect Michael Wittmann would have problems with this statement.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>2) One of the show's "experts" said the Tiger tank was the best tank the Germans had. Was this just hyperbole?<hr></blockquote>

"Best" is a vague term. Best at what? Everything? When you consider their relative cost, the Panther was certainly a better bang-for-the-buck tank.

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<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Colonel_Deadmarsh:

This is why most people including myself, before playing CM, thought that the Tiger was indestructable and yet its 100 mm of frontal armor isn't enough to deal with the Firefly in up close fights in CM. What gives? <hr></blockquote>

Apart from everything else, ask yourself how many close-up fights between the Firefly and the Tiger occurred IRL, as opposed to a QB map.

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<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Colonel_Deadmarsh:

Thanks for the heads up El Guapo--that was a great documentary.

Some things that struck me as odd:

1) The narrator said that Tiger tanks didn't have problems with the Firefly because of it's thick armor. This is why most people including myself, before playing CM, thought that the Tiger was indestructable and yet its 100 mm of frontal armor isn't enough to deal with the Firefly in up close fights in CM. What gives? Do we know for certain about these armor tables? Is the History Channel incorrect here and talking out of their ass or are they just generalizing aobut the effectiveness of the Tiger tank?

2) One of the show's "experts" said the Tiger tank was the best tank the Germans had. Was this just hyperbole? I always thought the Panther was the best tank the Germans put out on the battlefield and comparable to only the T-34 of the Russians.<hr></blockquote>

Re: #1, they were talking specifically about the King Tiger here, not the Tiger I.

#2: I believe this was Carius talking about a specific time in the war, prior to the introduction of the Panther or King Tiger.

I'm sure I am not the only one who noticed that the vehicle that was recently filmed (the color segments) was a mock-up based on a T-34. Probably the same vehicle used in SPR and BoB.

[ 01-14-2002: Message edited by: jgdpzr ]</p>

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<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>posted by Vanir:

"Best" is a vague term. Best at what? Everything? When you consider their relative cost, the Panther was certainly a better bang-for-the-buck tank.<hr></blockquote>

I think he meant the tank with the highest survival rate + deadliest to opponents. I'm guessing though.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>posted by jgdpzr:

Re: #1, they were talking specifically about the King Tiger here, not the Tiger I.<hr></blockquote>

Are you sure about this? I could've sworn this was before they started talking about the King Tiger. I feel pretty confident about this since only a handful of King Tigers were made--why would they talk about this tank never having problems with the Firefly all throughout the war when the King Tiger was made at the end of the war and only a few were produced? All I remember them saying about the King Tiger is that the Germans made the blunder of bringing them to the Ardennes battle because they didn't have the mobility they needed in those mountain roads.

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<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Colonel_Deadmarsh:

Are you sure about this? I could've sworn this was before they started talking about the King Tiger. I feel pretty confident about this since only a handful of King Tigers were made--why would they talk about this tank never having problems with the Firefly all throughout the war when the King Tiger was made at the end of the war and only a few were produced? All I remember them saying about the King Tiger is that the Germans made the blunder of bringing them to the Ardennes battle because they didn't have the mobility they needed in those mountain roads.<hr></blockquote>

If it is the segment I am thinking of, they were talking about the King Tiger. It was the part in which the German (I don't think it was Carius) mentioned the "bigger" cousin of the Sherman, the Firefly, with its bigger gun posed no problem for the KT. That's how I remember it anyway, but we could be talking about different segments. I don't remember any mention of how the Tiger faired against the Firefly, however.

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<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by ElGuapo:

For anyone who is here, there is an AWESOME documentary about the Tiger tank on History Channel right now.

Elguapo<hr></blockquote>

Guapo, I expect the next we see of you will be a news headline about another "young man" who joined the Taliban or crashed into a medium-sized skyscraper because he took the wrong zit medicine.

You post when the rest of us in Washington are at work. How can we see the this? Are you just trying to make us feel small?

You are a git who I must smash into defeat someday, time willing. And you're too skinny too.

Yer pal,

Jake

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