Generale_Pasquini Posted January 17, 2002 Share Posted January 17, 2002 Hello, Will digging in before tanks be included in CMBB. Many tanks were taken out using this method: Letting the tank roll over you (who are in a hole) and then sticking a charge behind it. Sort of like a human land mine is what I mean. Another way to solve this I guess could be to let tanks roll over trenches, as I think trenches are included in CMBB. Could be interesting... Nasty human vs tank warfare was really important on the Eastern Front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSBoxer Posted January 17, 2002 Share Posted January 17, 2002 This really did not happen as often as the movies lead you to believe. If anything the infantry usually remained in the hole/trench until the tank was past then took a zook/shrek shot at it's delicate rear from close range. This can already be done in CMBO if the armor is dumb enough to get that close without infantry support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generale_Pasquini Posted January 18, 2002 Author Share Posted January 18, 2002 I'm not refering to movies here... I have read numberous accounts of this happening in real life. Tanks would roll over trenches with troops under them. My question was not if troops could take out tanks or not... Will tanks be able to roll over trenches? With troops in them? Who could possible use some of these tactics to then knock them out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSBoxer Posted January 18, 2002 Share Posted January 18, 2002 Sorry, Your initial post talked so much about troops taking out tanks that I just assumed that was your question, I did not know that all that talk about tanks being destroyed by infantry was just hiding your real question about tanks being able to cross trenches. knowing that I guess my answer is.... I don't know if it is allowed in CMBB, but tanks can roll over foxholes in CMBO. Hope this clears things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Mc Auliffe Posted January 18, 2002 Share Posted January 18, 2002 In the game, can tanks run over foxholes to crush troops ? I have never seen this in the games I have played, but I have read in many accounts that this was a frequent event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted January 18, 2002 Share Posted January 18, 2002 In CM, tanks can crush/KO heavy equipment like AT Guns, but not enemy infantry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Mc Auliffe Posted January 18, 2002 Share Posted January 18, 2002 Thanks Moon. But if this tactic were included in CMBB, I guess it would have to have a huge effect on morale for adjacent/near troops. From what I have read it was a frightening event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted January 18, 2002 Share Posted January 18, 2002 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by M. Mc Auliffe: In the game, can tanks run over foxholes to crush troops ? I have never seen this in the games I have played, but I have read in many accounts that this was a frequent event.<hr></blockquote> Which accounts? Were they fictional (Cross of Iron, Forgotten Soldier) or real? This has been discussed before. Have you ever sat in the driver's seat of a tank? I have - you can't see anything. You drive by guages and the tank commander's orders. How do you run over a full infantry squad (10 men)? I doubt it ever happened, much less was a common occurence. Would love to see your sources - can you reproduce an account or two for us? Running over 1 or at the most 2 guys from a squad I can see, if they happened to be standing around in the open, but that is beyond CM's scope, isn't it? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Mc Auliffe Posted January 18, 2002 Share Posted January 18, 2002 Good point Michael, I recently read Forgotten Soldier. I certainly wasn't there, and I have never driven a tank. If as you say it was a rare event, I don't think it should be included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generale_Pasquini Posted January 18, 2002 Author Share Posted January 18, 2002 Mmmmmm... I didn't think about that at all. Since Combat Mission simulates a squad of men, ducking under a tank to take it out would be pretty stupid. I don't think 10 men would get in one hole to take out a tank. However since we are on the topic of Forgotten Soldier... I don't know who to believe. I have read some good points about it being false but also some good points about it being real. There is a website for CM and about Frontovik (if i remember correctly) that has some good arguments. Although it does seem a little "Ramboish" I felt that it was pretty darn good. An old man can easily forget minor details such as town names, and divison numbers, maybe even the arm his patch was one Fact or ficton, it was a darn good book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Mc Auliffe Posted January 18, 2002 Share Posted January 18, 2002 But what would the act represent ? I wouldn't expect that it is the infantry attempting to attack the vehicle by crawling under it, but rather the infantry being suppressed and the vehicle executing a movement command over the space occupied by the military. Again, I make no representations as to the accuracy of the event, but if it did happen, can/should it be included ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Mc Auliffe Posted January 18, 2002 Share Posted January 18, 2002 Sorry, forget to add Generale, I also thought it was a great book, regardless of whether it was a biographical account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted January 18, 2002 Share Posted January 18, 2002 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Generale_Pasquini: Mmmmmm... I didn't think about that at all. Since Combat Mission simulates a squad of men, ducking under a tank to take it out would be pretty stupid. I don't think 10 men would get in one hole to take out a tank. However since we are on the topic of Forgotten Soldier... I don't know who to believe. I have read some good points about it being false but also some good points about it being real. There is a website for CM and about Frontovik (if i remember correctly) that has some good arguments. Although it does seem a little "Ramboish" I felt that it was pretty darn good. An old man can easily forget minor details such as town names, and divison numbers, maybe even the arm his patch was one Fact or ficton, it was a darn good book.<hr></blockquote> That was my site - even if it is a true story, there is so much controversy surrounding it - and the alleged author has admitted to faulty memory - that it will never be fully accepted. Unfortunate, if it is really what it purports to be. Didn't mean to take the wind out of your sails McAuliffe - you had said you read "many" accounts of tank overruns being done, so I was wondering if perhaps you had indeed some new info on that subject. If you do, don't be shy, it would be of interest to all of us. Now, if you're talking through yer butt.... I wasn't there either, and I sat in a tank in a museum, not in the field, so I am no expert either - just giving my two cents. Your 2 cents are just as valid as mine, so sound off if you have more to add. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Mc Auliffe Posted January 18, 2002 Share Posted January 18, 2002 Michael, the reason why I appreciate this board is the fact that it is knowledgeable community. I have been a longtime "lurker" and have only recently registered. For me, it is nice to combine two pastimes: gaming and reading history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted January 18, 2002 Share Posted January 18, 2002 I did a quick test in CMBO using all the available troop skill levels. Ran several platoons of American troops over with PZIVs. If grunts are not too suppressed they will stay in their foxholes even when tanks run over them. It'll be interesting to see how CMBB will handle close assault anti tank weapons under such circumstances. [ 01-17-2002: Message edited by: Diceman ]</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSBoxer Posted January 18, 2002 Share Posted January 18, 2002 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Diceman: I did a quick test in CMBB using all the available troop skill levels. Ran several platoons of American troops over with PZIVs. If grunts are not too suppressed they will stay in their foxholes even when tanks run over them. It'll be interesting to see how CMBB will handle close assault anti tank weapons under such circumstances.<hr></blockquote> WHAAAAAAT!!! You ran a test in CMBB!!! Gimme Gimme, I want it now!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
109 Gustav Posted January 18, 2002 Share Posted January 18, 2002 You can't do that! I'm supposed to be the only one who actually goes and runs tests in CM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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