60mm Mortar Fan Club

[Mustang]

Thats right! I am starting a fan club for the exellent 60mm mortar.

Every american platoon usually comes with one of these, as part of there heavy weapon allotment (with the zooka and 30.cal). They are so usefull becuse they are just the right size: they are the smallest mortar that uses a drop tube (that is, dropping the round into the barrel, as opposed to a barrel smaller than the round, I.E. 2") so they have enough ammo (but, Sweet Jezus, do they go through it fast!) but they are not so small as to be a glorified way to chuck a hand gernade, these things have punch!

We've all had a time when we said... you want me to do WHAT???? With no armor (or damn little) and no off-board big-bore arty? That's when these little boom tubes save your arse. Individulally, they kill enemny infantry in foxholes and suppress them, pop that 150mm infantry gun that could have blown your inantry rush away, and kill mgun nests galore. But, if you take the time to consolodate your guns and make a miniture firebase with 3 mortars or so, with a HQ to spot for them, they are absolutely leathal. Recently, I had just such a firebase blow away half the crew of a MG42 (reduceing it's effectiveness 10fold) and rout out a german rife 44 squad out of there foxhole, than blow away a 150mm infantry gun, and THEN (with there last 3/5 rnds,) take care of a MG42 in the top floor of a light building!!! This may be a lucky game, but I have found that up until the inf gun, its 'par for the course' preformance!

Best of all, they are mobile and ACURATE! Off-board may be bigger, but takes forever and a day to arrive, and is always an area-effect weapon. One of my best heavy weapons is always a 60mm mortar. If you have a squad or two pinned down by jerries, than you can be sure that the '60 will pull them out of it.

It's like having your own little arty battery (whitch it is!)

So call in and share your "My 60mm mortar saved my sorry arse" stories!

[Silvio Manuel]

They come up big for me in the U.S. Airborne scenarios where you may not have offmap arty at the start...if at all.

In a big enough QB, 2 Rifle Coys' tubes (six 60mm) plus mebbe two 81mms behind a ridge commanded by a dbl-command bonus HQ is great fun. That is a dependant on the map not being too hilly so you have a big enough Field of View for your HQ. Otherwise, you can just blast the bejezzus out of his 1st line of defense, which is *still* great fun...it saves your rifle ammo for the Main Line of Resistance.

Which reminds me, I've got to play a game in the Jun-Aug44 timeframe and use those German 50mm tubes. Mortars rock. Especially (cackles evilly) those UK 3 inch boom sticks.

I don't think CM:BB will have 'em, but biggies like the 120mm mortar would be even greater fun in Direct Fire; I guess they're a Regimental asset though, too great in "scope" or sumpin'. At leaset we'll get SU-152 and such.

[flamingknives]

Yay. 3" mortars make 60mm mortars look like child's toys. Three of those behind a hill with an officer spotting waste everything in sight.

I have to say that I prefer the 2" to the 60mm for platoon support because they can keep up. My 2" mortars have killed more enemy guns than any other weapon I use. My only grumble is the lack of ammo.

I would like to hijack this thread and make it a "onboard arty, esp mortars fanclub"

[CMplayer]

Light mortars are great. It's not surprising they're still standard issue for the infantry.

[Olle Petersson]

Originally posted by flamingknives:

I have to say that I prefer the 2" to the 60mm for platoon support...

Me too.

The 60mm is only slightly more powerful WRT blast. One important advantage for the 2" mortar is the zero minimum range, which makes it useful even in harsh weather with restricted LOS.

Read my more in-depth argument at

Freefire Zones Forum

Cheers

Olle

[Redwolf]

But the 2" has a pretty restricted max range. No fun when used to take out guns from a mortar position at your map edge.

[CombinedArms]

All in all, I prefer the 60mm to the 2" for the higher blast and ammo load and longer range. I don't try to keep up with the infantry with these, but assign 3 or more to an HQ hidden with good LOS and blast away. But heck, I will happily use any mortar I'm given, the more the merrier.

The British 3" are also great favorites for their higher blast and great ammo loads. They're also also cheap, if a bit slow to move. It can be worth buying a universal carrier or two on larger maps to move them around. On a smaller map a company HQ in a good hidden position can often command much of the board and wreck everything in sight. All in all, these are the great secret (or not-so-secret) weapon of the British forces, IMHO.

On board mortars are particular favorites of mine for killing AT guns and HE guns. Their greater accuracy makes for an almost certain kill, and the more urgent the kill the more mortars one can assign. Moreover, the gun can't shoot back if you're firing indirectly under HQ command. If you can't get direct sight on the gun, you can often target right next to it and still kill it.

[109 Gustav]

One thing I found is that 3" mortars must have left their Air Jordans at home, because they can't jump over walls. I'm not sure if this is also true for 81mms, but keep this in mind when moving them on the attack.

[Michael Emrys]

Count me in the 60mm fan club too. I started out thinking that BTS had undermodeled them, they didn't seem as accurate in the game as their reputation had led me to expect. But I later found that their accuracy varied widely from team to team. Some teams are really sharp. And there is nothing to winkle a squad out of its comfy foxhole like a little 60mm gift from above dropping in every five seconds or so. Makes them remember that cake they left in the oven!

Michael

[CombinedArms]

Originally posted by Michael emrys:

Count me in the 60mm fan club too. I started out thinking that BTS had undermodeled them, they didn't seem as accurate in the game as their reputation had led me to expect. But I later found that their accuracy varied widely from team to team. Some teams are really sharp.

Michael

The varying sharpness of the mortar team no doubt depends on the combat rating and fighting bonus of the HQ. I've never tested this, but it stands to reason.

But now, having sufficiently praised the 60mm, I'm going to confess that I've never really gotten the hang of the using the 2". The trick with the 60mm is to lag behind the infantry attack and keep them grouped under cover with a spare HQ, but I find myself not doing this with the 2" for a couple of reasons:

1. The mortars have shorter range.

2. The Brits have much fewer spare HQs. There doesn't seem to be any organic weapons platoon with a British company (with its separate platoon HQ--why is this?) and no way of buying a weapons platoon (why is this?). So if you want to tie the 2" mortars to an HQ, you have to use a company HQ or leave a platoon leaderless. Now, I'm generally already either using the company HQ to command the 3" mortars in a place where the 2" is too short ranged to be effectively grouped, or I've got him up with the troops, helping to hold them together. Because of the great firepower of the 3" mortars, I'm willing to devote a company HQ to them, but the 2" don't seem to justify that kind of investment.

So generally I don't end up creating a 2" mortar pod w/HQ--much as I'd prefer that-- but let them run along with the infantry, one to a platoon, which they're physically able to do. But the net result is they fire a few rounds at someone, doing very little damage, then get themselves killed. As mortars, they're a priority target, and as a two man team near the front line, they die pretty easily. There must be a better way.

So, does any one have advice on how to overcome these problems and use the 2" mortars more effectively? It seems to me that they need to be grouped, somehow, so their combined firepower can have some effect, but in a way that doesn't detract from the overall command & control of the company.

[ April 10, 2002, 10:48 AM: Message edited by: CombinedArms ]

[CMplayer]

Originally posted by CombinedArms:

So generally I don't end up creating a 2" mortar pod w/HQ--much as I'd prefer that-- but let them run along with the infantry, one to a platoon, which they're physically able to do. But the net result is they fire a few rounds at someone, doing very little damage, then get themselves killed. As mortars, they're a priority target, and as a two man team near the front line, they die pretty easily. There must be a better way.

Use them organically with your platoons, like you said, but keep them a bit sheltered, like back with your platoon HQ. Then when the platoon goes on the line, put the platoon HQ on the line as well to spot for the 2" team which is somewhere sheltered from fire.

I've had great results with them this way. They are good gun killers, and can suppress/kill infantry esp in woods.

Also, be careful when moving them across open ground as they are very fragile to getting 'knocked out'. I've never understand why a 2" mortar should be able to get broken by fire but an MMG can't, but that's another story.

[flamingknives]

Never let the enemy get a shot at your 2" mortars. I generally use the squads to advance to contact, the HQ behind them so it doesn't get shot up and the mortar and the piat with the HQ. I also tend to use the mortar indirectly at static enemy positions.

I don't like the US mortars so much because the 60mm aren't light enough to manuever and not heavy enough to do some serious damage, while the 81mm isn't that good (compared to the 3").

My favourite little trick (esp against the AI) is to use the 2" to button the enemy tanks up. (cheaper than sharpshooters)

Why is the 3" so powerful anyway?

[Mustang]

Well!

I'm glad my fan club has so many members!!!

I like my 60's becuse they are powerfull enough to serve as mini ary peices, (that means I can depend on treebursts to do some real damage, and a near miss can still be leathal) but they are small enough to be able to hump into position. I find that grouping 3 of them together with a spare HQ to spot (prefrebly with stealth bonus), even in area fire role, the 'fire base' is very accurate. Coupled with a .50 cal for protection (and seince my fire base spotter is usually in a good LOS position, the .50's long range makes jerries hit the dirt all over the map) it really kicks ass. They are also flexible- I.E. iffin you have iron crosses loosely grouped together in some woods, you can space out your 3 'area fire' lines by 10 meters in a line to supress-kill all of them. If you have more than 3 mortars, then perhaps making 2 or even 3 fire-bases (iffin you have the extra HQ's, LOL) is a better idea than putting all your eggs in one basket. A 3 mortar fire-base like this can rout a MG nest and send a squad in a fox-hole home to momma.

A real danger to watch out for, though, is counter-battery fire. I just finished a Chance Encounter battle, and the enemny AI had a bunch of infantry and a mortar base on the hill beyond the church, keeping my SMG squads in the small bit of forest pinned down. 2 turns of 81mm mortar fire from my spotter, wally (joke) obliterated the enemnys there. Therefore, keeping your fire-base hidden is a priority. If there is a lull in the fighting, and you can do it with without getting a LOS to enemny units, MOVE your firebase to another opportune position.

I just love those little boom tubes... becuse in my two demo senarios, they KICK ASS AND TAKE NAMES!

[CMplayer]

(well it is a fan club after all...)

[ April 11, 2002, 11:52 AM: Message edited by: CMplayer ]

[Mustang]

Thanks, CMplayer! Those are some sweet pics, and add to the club, too! From now on you are an honorary member.

[Gpig]

Don't forget, laddies . . .

If you've got your little onboard-mortar park, you can use it to take out some of the light vehicles found all around these here parts.

During an assault on Axis hill positions, my 8 platoons of G.I.'s had about 5 60mm mortars backing them up. I found a nice little rise to hide them all behind (right out in open terrain), and put their HQ spotter up on the rise in some scattered trees.

I had a platoon feinting up the middle and a reinforced company assaulting the nearest hilltop on my right. They were just entering the smoke barrage my offboard artyspotter had called in, when a German armored car appeared way back on the ridgeline on the opposite side of the map. It was one of them pesky 20mm armed, 8 wheeled jobbies.

It started putting some accurate 20mm rounds on my running troopers in the open, and they started hitting the deck. Pretty soon the smoke would clear, and they'd be sitting ugly out in the open.

I had to take out that A/C!

I didn't want to retarget my 105mm spotter to this pesky threat, so the job fell to my on-board 60's.

Next orders phase I targetted all 5 mortars on the enemy a/c and the resulting action phase went something like this . . .

Enemy a/c fires on G.I.'s Ack Ack Ack!

Small explosion lands nearby.

Enemy a/c continues to fire. Ack Ack Ack!

More explosions start landing around a/c. Some are REAL close. TC buttons up. No more firing.

Around the 50 second mark there are 60mm HE rounds exploding all around the a/c and one finally lands right on top - taking it out - around the 55 second mark.

Swweeeeet!

Took about 6 rounds from each tube. Around 30 rounds to take it out, but done like dinner in under a minute. Heh heh.

Gpig

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by CombinedArms:

The varying sharpness of the mortar team no doubt depends on the combat rating and fighting bonus of the HQ. I've never tested this, but it stands to reason.

I agree that it stands to reason, but it isn't the whole story. I've had teams under leaders with good bonuses shoot poorly and teams with equal experience, etc., under leaders with only average abilities shoot excellently. There must be some random factor in there as well.

BTW, the thing about grouping them under a single leader, while a good enough standard practice may not always be the best. The terrain may not be conducive to spotting every location that is going to need coverage from a single spot. Then it's a good idea to split them up, maybe even send one along with a platoon and use its leader for spotting.

Michael

[ April 12, 2002, 02:22 AM: Message edited by: Michael emrys ]

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Mustang:

Coupled with a .50 cal for protection (and seince my fire base spotter is usually in a good LOS position, the .50's long range makes jerries hit the dirt all over the map) it really kicks ass.

But beware of that tactic. If the .50 gets to be too annoying or if the Krauts don't have a more lucrative target, they are liable to drop a fire mission on your little bang party!

:eek:

Michael

[John D Salt]

Originally posted by Mustang:

Thats right! I am starting a fan club for the exellent 60mm mortar.

[snips]

They are so usefull becuse they are just the right size: they are the smallest mortar that uses a drop tube (that is, dropping the round into the barrel, as opposed to a barrel smaller than the round, I.E. 2") [snips]

On a point of informnation, the 2-in mortar does *not* have a barrel smaller than the round, that is, it's not a spigot mortar. Neither are the German 5cm leGrW 36, the Japanese 50mm Type 10 or Type 89 "knee-mortars", the Italian Brixia 45mm modello 35, the Soviet 50mm PM-38, -39, -40 and -41, the Polish 46mm granatnik wz 36, the French lance-grenades de 50mm modele 37 or, darn it, the Belgian lance-grenades de 50mm DBT, all of which are smaller than the 60mm, although I believe that only the Soviet models were drop-fired. The Japanese did produce a 50mm spigot mortar for firing picric-acid demolition charges or bangalore torpedoes, the Type 98.

The teensiest mortar ever was I think the Soviet 37mm spade-mortar, although little seems to be known about it.

All the best,

John.

[John D Salt]

Originally posted by CombinedArms:

[snips]

The British 3" are also great favorites for their higher blast and great ammo loads. They're also also cheap, if a bit slow to move. It can be worth buying a universal carrier or two on larger maps to move them around.

...and so you should. The 66-round amn load that appears in CM:BO is the load carried in the mortar detachment's carrier. I don't see the crew lifting 66 bombs very fast; even assuming they're the lightweight 7.5lb version, that's 225 Kg just for the amn, before you try hefting the baseplate, tube and bipod.

All the best,

John.

[John D Salt]

Originally posted by CombinedArms:

The thing I like about CM:BO is the way it gets players to behave in a historically-correct manner in lots of ways. Forming a separate "pepper-pot" with the 2-in mortars centralised and a couple of Brens thrown in was something that British infantry did in fact do, although AIUI the "pepper-pot" would normally come under the command of the CSM, an august personage who is not modelled separate from the Coy HQ in CM:BO (similarly, at a lower level, a British platoon should doctrinally often have the pl comd's party moving separately from the 2-in mortar group commanded by the platoon sergeant).

3-inch mortars should in an ideal world come with a separate Mortar Fire Controller (MFC) who can act like an artillery observer. In the absence of this, and no separately-deployable CSM, I'm afraid you're stuck with having to make the choice.

The reason you can't buy separate weapons platoons for British infantry is that they didn't have them. The British company was conceived as a simple rifle-and-LMG-armed infantry force, despite being commanded by a higher-ranking officer (a Major) than is traditional in most other armies. Support weapons were concentrated at battalion level (mortar platoon and, in a lorried or motor bn, an anti-tank gun platoon), and MMGs were detached down from the divisional MG battalion (which also held the 4.2" mortars). Against this, British infantry battalions at full strength had four rifle companies. You would also be entitled to make up for the lack of heavy weapons by treating yourself to a bunch of carriers from the bn carrier platoon (4 sections each of 3 carriers, probably toting an assortment of PIATs and 2-in mortars as well as their Brens).

All the best,

John.

[Mustang]

Well Well Well-

I'm playing Chance Encounter with the german AI equipped with a 25% play balance and a +3 AI bounus...

I was pissed becuse the bad guys had only one STUG gun left out of five, and me only 2 shermans left out of five. So, you know that small hill in the middle of the map? A tank kept sending shells right over the heads of the jerries camped out on the top, sending small arms fire down to my heavy buildings occupied with troops on the bottom of the hill. (I mean, if they had any tall germans, the tanks shells would take there heads off!) The are catching hell from my protected troops, of course, (reinforced with a .30 cal) but still they are a threat. Furthermore, there is at least one infantry squad attempting to rush across the hill and consolodiate there grip on the woods of the left side of the map (playing from the americans perspective.) Oppertunity becons. I have the .50 cal in the woodedd hill close to the church fire on the infantry. I direct my 3 60 mm mortars to lay down an area fire on the hilltop. The transferring squad is ripped apart, the hill defenders have been routed, and my center is secure for the moment- in addition to keeping the other woods from being re-inforced. Now I will kill some MG42's in the woods beond the church so my zooka kan take out that last pesky STUG...

[Silvio Manuel]

Originally posted by John D Salt:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by CombinedArms:

[snips]

The British 3" are also great favorites for their higher blast and great ammo loads. They're also also cheap, if a bit slow to move. It can be worth buying a universal carrier or two on larger maps to move them around.

...and so you should. The 66-round amn load that appears in CM:BO is the load carried in the mortar detachment's carrier. I don't see the crew lifting 66 bombs very fast; even assuming they're the lightweight 7.5lb version, that's 225 Kg just for the amn, before you try hefting the baseplate, tube and bipod.

All the best,

John.</font>

[zukkov]

i'd like to add my name to the fan club membership! i didn't know you could direct on board mortars with an hq unit until i read this thread. i tried it last night in a scenario and wow, i was amazed how accurate and effective those babies can be! i wreaked havoc on and infantry platoon advancing on my position through some woods. unfortunately, i failed to id them, but i could hear the screams. too cool!

[CMplayer]

Welcome to the club zukkov. If you become a loyal follower of the tube-60 I'm sure you'll have many more such lovely moments.