Effect of snow and ice on weapon effects

[John D Salt]

I'm afraid I cannot recall or track down the thread this question was originally raised in, so apologies for kicking off a new one. My shubunkin-like memory tells me that people were discussing the effect of deep snow on artillery fire.

I found my copy of FM31-70/CATP 9-1, "Basic Artic Manual", dated October 1951 (I rather hope the "restricted" marking no longer applies, especially as I bought it from a market stall years ago). It has the following to say on the subject (paras 142 and 143, pages 226 to 228):

"142. STRENGTH OF SNOW, ICE AND FROZEN

GROUND FOR COVER.

a. General. The often soft spongy ground of the

north in the summer and the snow surface in the

winter has a smothering effect on all types of fire. However hard frozen bare ground or ice when not covered with snow greatly increases the numbers of ricochets and fragmentation effects. The resistance or protection offered by snow, ice, or frozen ground against enemy fire is most variable.

b. Penetration table. The minimum thickness for

protection from rifle bullets and shell splinters is as follows:

Snow-wall material(*) Minimum thickness in feet

Newly fallen snow_______________13.

Firmly frozen snow______________8 to 10.

Packed snow___________________6 1/2.

Frozen snow-water mixture_______4 to 5.

Ice___________________________3 1/2.

Icecrete________________________1.

* These materials will disintegrate under sustained fire.

A rifle bullet fired from 100 yards loses its killing power in unpacked snow, after penetrating 3 to 6 feet depending on the type of snow. Snow packed in layers tends to deflect the bullet at each new layer. Loose snow spread over a defense position will help smother ricochets.

143. EFFECT OF SNOW, ICE, FROZEN GROUND AND

MUSKEG ON SHELLS AND GRENADES.

a. Loose snow greatly reduces the explosive power

and splinter effect of shells. The depth, type of snow, and ammunition are naturally the main considerations. On a quick or delayed action fuse the shell generally penetrates the snow blanket and explodes on hitting the solid ground. The snow smothers and reduces the effect of the fragments. Your cover of 3 feet of snow will provide protection against most light artillery fire except in case of a direct hit. A superquick

fuse setting will increase the ffect of artillery fire, while air burst will inflict still more casualties on surface targets.

b. In the summer the many areas of muskeg and

water will also limit the effects of artillery fire. On ice or frozen ground and during periods of freeze-up the effect will be greatly increased as the result of flying ice splinters and frozen clods of ground. In these seasons and areas your immediate material for protection must be increased in strength. Overhead protection must be sought wherever possible.

c. Hand grenades often sink into the snow and

muskeg before exploding and are consequently

restricted in effect. In such conditions the grenade can be tied to an improvised platform which will help prevent sinking into the snow or muskeg before it explodes (fig. 109). You must accept the fact that a platform and the use of heavy mitts will lower your accuracy and throwing range."

I also seem to recall reading somewhere that snow reduces the effect of VT-fuzed arty rounds, as the increased strength of return from the snow sets off the rounds at a higher altitude than is best. However, I can't remember where I read that, and so can't quote the source.

All the best,

John.

[Jeff Duquette]

Interesting information John. Thanks for posting it.

[CMplayer]

Thanks John. Does anyone know if these effects are accounted for in the game?

[Dave H]

I don't know if these effects are accounted for in the game. However, I do know that snow and frozen ground are the conditions of SuperTed's Give & Take scenario currently in progress in the Newbie Tournament. You may want to check for his opinion on the game's modeling of these conditions.

[Olaf]

While in Norway their army put on a demonstration for us using the different construction techniques/ materials listed above for infantry bunkers. Small arms were used from 7.62mm to 12.7mm. The Icecrete was very impressive and would take a large amount of rounds (dependent on the size)to cause any serious damage to the bunker. Also, very hard to see since all materials used quickly turned invisible and blended in with the next snowfall.

[Andrew H.]

What is icecrete, exactly?

[Michael Emrys]

Sawdust in frozen water usually. I suppose glass or carbon fiber could be substituted for sawdust.

Originally it was proposed to use this material to build large escort carriers to operate in the North Atlantic for convoy protection during WW II, but the project became unnecessary and was dropped.

Michael

[Aunty Jack]

What is muskeg?

Further, is NW Europe counted as "the soft, spongy ground of the north"?

[Sig]

Originally posted by CMplayer:

Thanks John. Does anyone know if these effects are accounted for in the game?

Hello,

I asked the question a few weeks ago about the effect of deep snow on artillery and Madmatt answered the effect was modelled in CMBB. Since the thread contained only half a dozen comments it sank fast and most of you probably missed it.

Sig

[Andreas]

Originally posted by Aunty Jack:

What is muskeg?

Further, is NW Europe counted as "the soft, spongy ground of the north"?

From dictionary.com:

mus·keg Pronunciation Key (mskg) also mas·keg (ms-)

n.

A swamp or bog formed by an accumulation of sphagnum moss, leaves, and decayed matter resembling peat.

The manual is talking about the Arctic, not NW Europe.

[CMplayer]

Thanks Sig (and the rest of ya too)

[Aunty Jack]

Thanks. From my viewpoint, Europe is pretty far north.