Kong Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 Can anyone out there provide some insight into the 2 prevalent Soviet rifles in WWII, referred to in CMBB as the SVT-40 and Mos.-NG. What ammo size? Magazine/bolt?!? Accuracy?!?! How did these compare to the M1 Garand, the Kar98?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 Originally posted by kking199: Can anyone out there provide some insight into the 2 prevalent Soviet rifles in WWII, referred to in CMBB as the SVT-40 and Mos.-NG. What ammo size? Magazine/bolt?!? Accuracy?!?! How did these compare to the M1 Garand, the Kar98?!?!I have a Mosin-Nagant and the M44 carbine version...but ya know, I've never fired either? They look very pretty though, if that helps any(!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 Originally posted by kking199: Can anyone out there provide some insight into the 2 prevalent Soviet rifles in WWII, referred to in CMBB as the SVT-40 and Mos.-NG. What ammo size? Magazine/bolt?!? Accuracy?!?! How did these compare to the M1 Garand, the Kar98?!?!The Mos -NG, or Mosin-Nagant (or just Mosin) is a basic bolt-action rifle in calibre 7.62x54R. It is roughly comparable to the Kar98, but with a lower average quality and some idiosyncrasies like a straight bolt handle, and fixed sights. Magazine is a fixed mag that holds 4 rounds (5 if you count the one in the chamber) and is loaded via a 5-round stripper clip. The SVT is a self-loading rifle using the same 7.62x54 rifle round, and basically it wasn't the POS it is often thought to be it wasn't very good either. They were more complicated, more expensive, more vulnerable, more sensitive to the enviroment and less accurate than normal rifles. Although supposed to completely replace bolt-action rifles in the early forties they were slowly phased out during the war. Magazine was a 10-round detachable jobbie, square ugle and functional. Maybe the 15-round mag for it's predeccesor the AVS could also be used, I'm not sure. [ September 28, 2002, 09:22 PM: Message edited by: Foxbat ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: I have a Mosin-Nagant and the M44 carbine version...but ya know, I've never fired either?Why not? They look very pretty though, if that helps any(!)They really do look pretty, better than a Mauser imHo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
109 Gustav Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 The Nagant was considered to be a clumsy POS by Americans fighting against Communists in the 1920s. The Powers That Be had decided that a rifle was a rifle, so there was no point in sending Springfields to Russia when there were Nagants there. They were fairly accurate and very reliable, however. The Nagant was designed the 1890s IIRC, and was still being produced in the 1950s. It fires a 7.62x54mm rimmed cartrige and has a five round mag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 Originally posted by Foxbat: [QB]Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastables Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 Eh? double post [ September 28, 2002, 11:14 PM: Message edited by: Bastables ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimmer Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 The variants of the Mosin-Nagant rifle that would fit into CMBB are the M91/30 rifle, the M38 carbine, and the M44 carbine. The carbines had 20 inch barrels, with the M44 having a permanently affixed folding bayonet. The 91/30 barrel is somewhere around 26-28 inches. Further, the Finns used captured Soviet MNs (rarely) and also built their own using captured Soviet receivers. Finnish variants include the M27, M28, M28-30, and the M39. Finnish rifles were frequently built to a higher standard than the Soviet models and can be quite accurate (I have a 1942 B barrel M39 that shoots quite well). All Mosin-Nagants use the same cartridge and the same bolt, action and magazine design. Compared to Mausers, they look crude and are frequently found with rough finishes and tool marks on the metal. These flaws do not detract from their generally good reliability, even under extreme conditions. Accuracy of the Soviet versions varies widely, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 Originally posted by 109 Gustav: The Nagant was considered to be a clumsy POS by Americans fighting against Communists in the 1920s. The Powers That Be had decided that a rifle was a rifle, so there was no point in sending Springfields to Russia when there were Nagants there. They were fairly accurate and very reliable, however.The Americans weren't in russia to fight communists, but to protect allied ports and stocks And they were issued Mosin's for a very good reason, the US governement had warehouses full of them. These american-made mosin-nagants were bought by the US governement after the soviet governement defaulted on a czarist contract with Remington and Westinghouse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastables Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 Any one noticed if the German semi auto G/K 43 rifle is in the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: I've also never had either weapon inspected (head spacing, etc.) so I'm a bit leery.Given that your rifles have probably been used in war and been "refurbished" at least once in their career (quite possibly by putting a new bolt in the existing rifle) I would also be a bit worried until it was checked by a gunsmith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nippy Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 "It's not a commonly reloaded round, and surplus ammo is tough to get here - not that I've looked very hard. So that means using hunting ammo at almost a dollar a round. I prefer to go plinking when I shoot." Ah Little M1 Carbine, take me away I hear you about the Rare Ammo problem. I own a Japanese Arisaka 7.7mm rifle and I can't find ammuntion for no matter where I look. The only thing left to do is "convert" rifle brass of a different Caliber into the one you need. I had a fellow once show me 30-06 Brass converted into 7.7mm Moslin ammo is a little easier to find, but the quality of the ammo varies so much that any type of serious accuracy shooting would be impossable. (I had Argintinian .308 ammo Reduce my Grandfather's M1A into a complete POS that a Chinese SKS could outshoot. He switched to American made factory ammo and it shot great after that.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimmer Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 On headspace: MN bolt heads are interchangeable, so fixing headspace problems is easy and cheap. Just get a few and keep trying until you get one that gives you the right headspace. On ammo: Surplus ammo is cheap and available. I have a bunch of Yugoslav that cost me about 0.10-0.12 cents a round shipped, and there is Russian, Hungarian, and Czech stuff out there, as well as cheap Russian commercial ammo. It is all corrosive, but that's easy enough to deal with. The Yugo shot a 1.25 inch or so 5-shot group out of my B barrel M39 at 100 yards last weekend. Shoot away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGSF Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 I own an M44 (with the permanently attached bayonet). I also have a tin of surplus Soviet Bloc ammo. The M44 thumps worse or as bad as the Mauser when I fire it (lighter weight and tapered butt plate), flame and smoke spurt out of the muzzle *and* from around the receiver. It is apparent that the Commies didn't care about their troops too much. A dirty, nasty thing that is a lot of fun to shoot. The M44 is actually setup so that the bayonet needs to be folded out and extended in place for the rifle to be sighted properly (not that accuracey was anything I cared about, or the jam tin). - OGSF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorderBill Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 I had the old Moisan-Nagant with the old 30" barrel. Here in the states, I had no problem finding inexpensive, surplus ammo. Most of it Chinese 147 gr. FMJ. The only problem was that they were Berdan primed and quite corrosive. But that old surplus rifle already had some minor pitting in the bore, so I fired it quite happily and just cleaned it thoroughly afterwards. Ballistically, the 7.62mm x 54R cartridge can compete quite favorably with the 30-06 when loaded with bullets of the same weight. True, the sights are quite crude on the Moisan-Nagant but still capable of battlefield accuracy. When I was an Infantry Officer in 1984 - 1993, the accuracy standard for M16A1 ammo was 4 MOA. Basically, standard production ammo had to be capable of consistently shooting into a 4" circle at 100 yds. The Moisan-Nagant even with its crude open sights will easily meet this standard. IIRC The straight bolt handle on the Moisan Nagant results in a shorter overall bolt rotation than the Mauser and can actually be cycled faster. The basic action is capable of outstanding accuracy and I have seen sporterized rifles used for deer hunting down in Georgia. Also, I remember that a Finnish team won some international 1000 yd. matches in the 1930s using a version of the Moisan-Nagant. All in all quite a serviceable battle rifle, even though both the Germans and Russians were basically using a WWI rifle whereas the US had the Garand which was probably the best overall infantry rifle of the war. Nice to be back on the board, I've been lurking but haven't participated much since I left Alaska. My now ex-wife threw away my box of Computer games when I transferred to the Tex-Mex border including CMBO which was listed as the main fact in the divorce proceedings (just kidding) and I figured I'd just wait for CMBB. I've got CMBB and it was worth the wait!! I've had some outstanding tank battles the last few days and I've forgotten the sorrow of my lost CMBO CD. One of these days with therapy, I may even forgive the ex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kong Posted September 29, 2002 Author Share Posted September 29, 2002 Thanks for all the great info guys!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Harrison Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: I have a Mosin-Nagant and the M44 carbine version...but ya know, I've never fired either?What!?! Have you gone mad Michael! Do they work? My Grandpa gave my dad his M1 carbine and the thing is a blast to shoot! My bro has a mauser and a garand and they are a hoot to shoot! I have a M14 and it is a hoot to shoot! It runs in the family out here in the country Chad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorBeef Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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