info on penal battalions

[mattman2000]

Quick question -- what would be the best way to represent a russian penal battalion in CMBB? I was thinking of creating some fictional scenarios centered around a pair of characters from the novel "The End of War." Ilya and Misha were a pair of disgraced officers in an 8th Guards Army penal battalion. Or is such an idea not feasible? I haven't been able to find that much material on such units.

[Gaylord Focker]

I don't know realy anything on the subject, but you could try using conscripts to represent them.

[demoss]

Here you are. There's the minefield. Past that, there's the enemy. Go to it.

What's that? Pioneers? Maybe next time. Good luck. And don't come back without taking that hill.

[Foxbat]

It would depend on what kind of penal battalion it was. If we're talking an officers penal battalion then these are highly trained and (presumably) skilled soldiers with generally previous combat experience. Other penal units would be composed of ordinary soldiers who had messed up in the eyes of the army, common criminals or both.

In fact the only thing in common between various forms of penal battalions would be a high level of fanatiscism (albeit generally of the sort imposed from the outside) and the fact that they had to do the "dirty work", which generally meant leading assault and other high risk missions arther than walking into minefields

Some interesting links:

From the memoirs of a captain of a reconaissance unit:

"So, I could pick out people from the entire regiment. I had a regular staff of 20-25, of course, but when I was going on a mission, I could pick any extra people as necessary. There were always many volunteers among the convicts, because there were more opportunities to earn extra points in a mission, and once the convict got distinguished in action, the commander immediately applied for complete acquittal. I probably had five men like that and two of them had 10-year sentences. They were very good men." - Ivan Kobets @ the Russian Battlefield

Interview with Semion Aria: Tanker, artilleryman and soldier in a penal battalion.

"You had been in a penal battalion? What was its structure? In what way could you "pay your debt"?

I was put into a penal company where there were about 150 of us. We were only armed with rifles. We had neither SMG's nor machine guns. All officers were regular commanders, not prisoners, but the soldiers and NCO's -- prisoners. You could get out of the penal battalion alive either due to being wounded, or if you gained commander's approval in combat, and he recommended that your conviction be removed.

How did you manage to get out? Your conviction was removed because of a recommendation?

Yes. It was at Taganrog on the Southern Front. I participated in reconnaissance-in-force. Since the situation was do-or-die, I diligently performed my combat task. It worked. Right after that it was recommended that my conviction be removed, and after several days I was called to the division HQ, to the court martial, where they removed my conviction. After that I was sent to a regular unit.

How long were you in the penal company?

Three weeks."

Semion Aria @ the Russian Battlefield

[ December 04, 2002, 11:21 PM: Message edited by: Foxbat ]

[laxx]

this is most interesting, especially the links above. I wonder how many armies utilised common crimmals for penal battlion in WWII.

I know that in come countries, crimmals escaped the arm of law by joining the army. but this is something else entirely.

laxx

[Dowdingski]

The British expeditionary armies was filled with criminals from NCO downwards for hundreds of years. For instance, the forces that fought Napoleon had a large body of men from dubious backgrounds. If you were convicted of serious crime (rape and even murder)in Britain you had a choice between the gallows and the army. It wasn't far from a death sentence, anyway.

[Hurricane]

At least according to Antony Beevor, most of the Russians in penal units were perfectly ordinary soldiers who had just been unlucky. If a Russian soldier retreated, escaped/was freed from captivity, talked negatively about bolshevism/positively about capitalism, picked up nazi propaganda leaflets etc. ect., he could expect to be put into a penal battalion. Real criminals were just a small minority.

[Martin Rapier]

Originally posted by laxx:

this is most interesting, especially the links above. I wonder how many armies utilised common crimmals for penal battlion in WWII.

laxx

The members of penal battalions weren't 'common criminals' but had normally been found guilty of some infraction of military law specific to the army in question - doubting the ablity of <insert appropriate mad dictator with stupid moustache> to prosecute the war effectively, expressing doubts as to final victory, refusing to shoot prisoners in the back of the head etc.

There _were_ a couple of very well known units made up of actual convicts released from prison, the British convict battalion which fought on Crete (although they were from a military prison) and perhaps most notoriously SS Sturmbrigade Dirlewanger, whose rank and file were originally recruited from convicted poachers(!). Later on the unit effectively functioned as a penal battalion being a dumping ground for civilian and military convicts although individuals could volunteer for service with the unit and its exciting round of 'special duties' - which a number of rear area iron cross hunters duly did. see e.g. 'The Cruel Hunters'.

Cheers

Martin

[mattman2000]

So, judging from the posts, there might be two ways to go about it. I could have a green/conscript rifle company representing enlisted men and NCOs (fodder for the mine fields); or I could have a unit heavy in disgraced/former officers (regular or veteran?). Either way, fanaticism would be tuned up because they would be striving to prove themselves in the eyes of their commanders. A further step would be to strip away their support weapons (no mortars or MGs). I guess I could add some independent MG teams or SMG squads (representing the folks responsible for "motivating" the penal battalion), and a cruel player could direct area fire at any squad that breaks or routes.

[c3k]

Hi,

This is off the top of my head-it's been a while since I've looked at my sources regarding Soviet penal units. (NOT to be confused with penile units )

Basically, the soldiers were assigned to penal units based on their rank. Each level of command had a penal unit. So, if the Front penal battalion were used, it would have "cowardly" or bourgois Majors or Colonels and such. Whereas a Corps level penal company would be made up of various enlisted folk. (Perhaps their original unit retreated under fire. They're in the Corps/Divisional penal unit while their commander is at the Front penal unit.)

That's what I remember, so I could be off.

Ken

[Bruno Weiss]

Increase your Penal Battalion size!

Thanks to the miracle of science, now you can enjoy a larger more satisfying penal battalion. For more information, call your local penal representative.

[mattman2000]

Is that herbal?

[kevsharr]

I remember reading a book written by a russian right after the fall of the soviet union in one chapter he discusses penal batt.When you were convicted of what ever crime you were given a choice between a ground or air assignment,In ground unit's you usually led assault's and you were indeed lightly armed and you could get shot from either direction.In a air assignment you were to make ten mission's chained into the rear gunner position of a IL-2,if you completed the ten mission's you would be considered rehabilitated.Unfortunatly after eight or nine mission's the unit doctor would report you as unfit for flying operation's and send you to a ground penal unit.I don't know how much truth is in this story but the russian's were'nt the kindest of people back then toward's the german's or their own people.