CmBI Scenario: Kohima Ridge

[Bullethead]

Alex said:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I've finished playing it out. I surrendered around turn 45. I was down to 2 platoons and a bunch of non combat effective units (spent mortars, panicked troops, 1 man squads, etc.).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ouch!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I set up a new MLR at the middle minor flag, with a little over a company in an arc anchored in the large jungle area by the road, and on the wooded slop facing the swamp. Once the AI started it's assault I managed to hold out for about 15 turns. The AI just kept throwing troops at that slope in what amounted to a bonzai charge. I was gradually forced to shift more and more troops there, but eventually weight of numbers broke my line.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is the sort of AI behavior I was designing for, because it seems to be what the Japanese did in real life here. And in real life, the initial Japanese assaults overran the whole map at heavy cost, except for Garrison Hill. And they almost got that, several assaults taking most of it but then being driven back by counterattacks.

I guess what I need to do is spell out what I consider the real victory conditions in the briefings, regardless of what the points are on the AAR screen at the end. If the Brits only have Garrison Hill at the end, it's a draw (historical result). If the Brits end up holding more, they win. If they lose everything, the Japanese win.

Ideally, there should only be 1 objective on the map: Garrison Hill. Maybe 2 if you toss in Kuki Piquet. Then the above would be obvious just from looking at the map. Unfortunately, you must have more flags on a map this size if you want both human and AI players to behave realistically. But this in turn skews the AAR's scoring to favor more flag-taking as opposed to hold the key terrain. So I compromised and put big flags on the historically more important hills and small flags on the other hill to give the AI something to steer by and force humans to choose what to defend.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>The AI did indeed concentrate on Jail Hill first. In fact, it sent all it's troops there and then just pushed down the line of victory flags.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's very impressive AI stuff there IMHO. To accomplish this, the AI had to march 2/3 of its force all through the jungle from north to south, then turn them around and roll up the line. This implies some high-level thought going on. I've never seen it do this when I've played the Brits. For me, it usually attacks each end of the line with a battalion and then throws the middle battalion in to help either of the ends.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Some thoughts on the scenerio. Though I realize that you are trying to recreate a real battle, I think it is weighted too heavily in favor of the Gerpanese. There's at least a 3 to 1 advantage and the defender is forced to spread out over a large area. The tanks seem about right, but there's just too much infantry.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I appreciate your comments. However, I'm not entirely convinced this scenario is too biased towards the Gerpanese. After all, the Brits can win this thing, as demonstrated by Armdchair in this thread. It's not easy, but it is possible.

As to the numerical balance, remember that in most major attacks, the attackers try to have at least a 3-1 numerical superiority. That is about what's in this scenario (9 Gerpanese grunt companies + "tanks" vs. 4 Brit grunt companies). So the numbers are realistic from the standpoint of the military art. They are also realistic from the historical OOB angle. This was, after all, a full regiment vs. a single battalion in real life.

I guess my opinion is that attack scenarios that do not have approximately 3-1 odds in favor of the attacker are inherently unrealistic. Significantly weaker attacks just don't happen in real life, at least not at first or not intentionally. If I want more balanced numbers, I do a meeting engagement.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Perhaps this is partially a problem with using Germans for Japanese. I suspest that the Germans, even the 44 squads, have more automatic weapons and a much higher firepower than the corresonding Japanese. I would suggest either removing troops from the Gerpanese side, or perhaps using a weaker unit. Perhaps 3 or 4 to 1 odds with the Gerpanese using Volkstrum with a high level of fanaticism.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree, using Germans as Japanese is the hardest part of designing scenarios in the CBI/PTO. Because of this, I thought long and hard before deciding on what German units to use. I settled on the 1944 Heer for the squads for the following reasons:

1) This squad type has the lowest percentage of automatic weapons of all German squads of any type and year (3 of 9, i.e., 2xSMG and 1xLMG). All other German squad types have at least 4 automatic weapons, the extras being mostly SMGs and assault rifles.

2) Given the short ranges of almost all firefights in this terrain, additional SMGs and ARs would have been way too advantageous for the Gerpanese. At the same time, the firepower of the LMG42 is rather low at 40m and less, so its inclusion doesn't lead to overkill in this scenario.

3) CM Germans don't have anything like the Japense "knee" mortar, which was very effective in this type of battle. So I figure having 2 SMGs per squad more or less balances out that way, with the LMG42 at such short range being a good approximation for the Japanese Nambu, which was very similar to the Bren.

4) Japanese squads were 11-12 men. However, this division had just marched 80 miles or so through essentially trackless, very mountainous, intensely disease-infested jungle, all with limited supplies. They suffered attrition en route. Thus, using squads of 9 men seems more reasonable than using bigger squads.

So that's why the Gerpanese are 1944 Heer. I'm open to other suggestions but I'd like to see some justification as to why such a change would be more realistic.

As to quality, I made the Gerpanese veterans with the highest possible fanaticism rating (all troops 50%). I think both these settings are justified. The division WAS veteran, having been in successful action for about 6 years at this point in time, starting in China. And if any unit was fanatic, it was this one, even by Japanese standards. Companies continued to attack even when reduced to 8 men, despite being shelled and bombed and starved for weeks.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I would also suggest removing at least some of the MG42s. As far as i know the Japanese didn't have anything close to them, and there are literally dozens (it looks like you bought the units as battalions, maybe just buy then as seperate platoons). And maybe replace the rest of them with the lighter versions.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I did buy the Gerpanese by battalion. I did this to get all the company and battalion HQs, which historically were right in the front ranks of many of the attacks here.

The Japanese did have HMGs. They were closer to the US and Brit types than the HMG42, but then the MG42 was rather unique in WW2. However, because the HMG42 is all that's available for the Germans in CM, it's what I have to use here. Is it perfect? No. Is it better than nothing? Yes. And besides, the terrain severely limits the utility of HMGs on the attack anyway.

This still leaves the question of how many of them the Gerpanese should have in this scenario. To be honest, I'm not sure how many HMGs per company the Japanese had in real life. Also, it wouldn't surprise me if in the real battle the Japanese left some of them at home due to the long cross-country march--my source doesn't go into such detail. So having a few less might make the scenario more realistic. If you or anyone else has more info on this subject, please let me know

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Offering the defender some fortifications might also help, but again i don't know how that fits the OOB.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In this initial stage of the Kohima battle, there were no fortifications. The Brit defenders had only just arrived and didn't have time to set anything up beyond foxholes.

Later, both sides had bunkers. Unfortunately, CM doesn't allow Allied troops to have bunkers. Hence, there's no way to make the middle, stalemate phase of Kohima where it was pretty much WW1-type trench warfare. However, the long, final phase of Brit counterattack is possible by giving the Gerpanese some bunkers. I can find no reference to either mines or wire at any point in the battle, though.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>One final note, I don't know how it fits with the OOB, but I would have gladly traded all my arty for light mortars with fast response times. They're very effective against infantry, and I had a lot of trouble getting arty in the right place because the large guns, when unobserved take 6-8 turns to arrive. I was only really able to use them in the retreat from Jail Hill and once the Gerpanese were stationary for a while as they assaulted my line.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Arty is another area where some changes are probably inevitable. As it stands now, it's a compromise. Both sides have somewhat more arty than they had in real life at any one time at this point in the battle. This is because this scenario is limited to just that--a single 1-hour battle at some point on a single day. Ideally, it should be an operation representing several days, but because the CM operation engine can't handle encirclements, I have basically compressed the fighting of several days into 1 more-intense battle. The net exposure of both sides to arty is thus about the same overall and is intended to produce about the same number of arty casualties in this 1 scenario as took place over the several days in question.

On the Brit side of things, there is 1 encircled battalion holding the ridge. Such a battalion had a battery of 3" mortars. I chose to represent them as an FO instead of on-map mortars because of the way CM limits on-map mortar indirect fire, although they really should be on the map. Essentially, on-map mortars are nearly useless in this type of terrain under CM's rules and would not be effective enough if placed on-map in this scenario.

So besides the platoon 2" mortars, that's it for this battalion's organic fire support. However, I also gave the Brits a lot of 25pdr FOs. These units represent fire coming in from the Brit division trying to relieve Kohima from the west. This fire proved very helpful to the Brits at Kohima, although there were difficulties with it, due to the C^3I problems inherent from the nature of the situation. Thus, I think the long delay times due to mostly blind shots is appropriate. The Brit player just has to plan ahead in using his arty.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>All in all a very tense and exciting battle...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks, that's exactly the effect I'm trying for

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>...it's just that it's one that I don't think I could have won even if i knew where the attack was coming from. I'm a decent player, but as it stands now, the Brits are, at least for me, a lost cause in this one.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Way up above somewhere, I mentioned what I consider the true victory conditions to be. Had you known them from the beginning, do you think you would have played differently, perhaps by pulling back from some objectives earlier to beef up Garrison Hill? And do you think that would have made a difference in the final outcome?

Thanks for the comments.

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-Bullethead

In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria.

[curih]

Well knowing what really happened and what is a "victory" I would definately play differently. I also think that because of the AI strategy I had a much harder battle than it needed to be. By concentrating all it's troops at one end the initial assaults were usually something like 2+ companies charging 2 platoons under covering fire from the tanks. Meanwhile my men were still spread over the map because I was unaware that the AI had concentrated all it's troops together and still had to contend with the possibility of attacks elsewhere. As the battle that became my final stand progressed it became apparent that all the enemy's strength was there and I began moving all my resources there, but it was too late. I had taken too many casualties and used up too much ammo.

The AI successfully turned a 3-1 advatage into a 6-1 advantage at the local level. I think I could have done better if it was a little more spread out.

Also, did you get the saved end of game map that I sent you?

Alex

[curih]

I had another thought. You said the AI usually attacked you from both ends. I wonder if it was trying to join up as it did with me, but hit your line and was forced to stop?

[Guest grunto]

--One final note, I don't know how it fits with the OOB, but I would have gladly traded all my arty for light mortars with fast response times. They're very effective against infantry, and I had a lot of trouble getting arty in the right place because the large guns, when unobserved take 6-8 turns to arrive. I was only really able to use them in the retreat from Jail Hill and once the Gerpanese were stationary for a while as they assaulted my line.--

you could also keep the artillery spotters and give them TRPs. with a few of those the FOs can really get fast response time for barrages along the most likely attack routes.

[Bullethead]

grunto said:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>you could also keep the artillery spotters and give them TRPs. with a few of those the FOs can really get fast response time for barrages along the most likely attack routes.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is something I've been considering. At the point in the battle this is supposed to be, however, there hadn't been time and/or the arty wasn't in range yet. Still, it might be worth trying.

OTOH, the lead time for blind arty isn't that big a problem IMHO. You just have to think ahead and have outposts out forward to find the Gerpanese early. Also, the AI tends to attack in great depth but on a narrow front. This means that if you shell the area just behind where its troops are hitting yours, you often get its 2nd and 3rd waves.

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-Bullethead

In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria.

[curih]

I like the TRP idea. It could help a lot. I found the arty delay to be a big problem. With TRPs the faster response would make it more effective and help balance it for the Brits better.

BTW I am playing it through again from the Brit side, just finishing my setup. As to that, I would suggest setting up the troops in some sort of formation instead of squares.

Alex

[curih]

I'm up to about turn 13. This time I set up a bit differently a) knowing where the enemy was and keeping in mind the true scenerio objectives that BulletHead laid out before. I only left a small force (1 platoon with a spotter) on jail hill with the intention of bringing arty down on whatever showed itself first over there, and then retreating. On that half of the map I'm set up in the woods in a series of ambushes that have made for an effective covered withdrawel when combined with smoke from onboard mortars.

Because of what happened in my last game, I may have shifted too much of my forces to the Jail Hill side, but we'll see. The tennis courts were hit by a full battalion. I made a short stand there before pulling back up the hill, inflicting 2-1 casualties or better in most situations. I took heavy losses on the ridge at the top of Garrison hill, but have committed most of my reserves there to bolster the defense, and have pulled back just over the ridge so now the Japs are getting mowed down as they top it one and 2 squads at a time. The rest of that enemy battalion is under arty fire from 2 25pdr spotters and the 3 inch mortars. I have made better use of the guns this time. The howitzer helped my defense at the tennis courts quite a bit (they're very powerful at close range) and I made a gamble and tried towing two of the AT guns across the map. I lost one while setting it up, but the second made it safely into the woods. ( On a side not, are the paths of scattered trees meant to represent paths? They always end up being used as very slow roads.)

I'll finish this in a bit, I have to go to class now.

Alex

[James Bailey]

BH,

I haven't had time to play Kohima Ridge yet, and was wondering what side I should play vs. AI? I generally enjoy playing against the AI when it is on the offensive (I think it handles offensive tactics in a more realistic fashion), so I was leaning towards playing as the Brits. This decision was reinforced by a quick scan of the above discussion, but I wanted to get your thoughts on it.

Also, I thought the map looked excellent -- not as good as your Volcano, but a close second!

Thanks,

James

[Bullethead]

Alex said:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I'm up to about turn 13. This time I set up a bit differently a) knowing where the enemy was and keeping in mind the true scenerio objectives that BulletHead laid out before. I only left a small force (1 platoon with a spotter) on jail hill with the intention of bringing arty down on whatever showed itself first over there, and then retreating.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Probably a good plan. Jail Hill is a difficult objective, both to hold and to take. It's open to attack from 3 sides and there is little in the way of covered routes of withdrawal to the north. OTOH, if the Gerpanese attack it heavily, a strong stand there can throw off their timing elsewhere.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Because of what happened in my last game, I may have shifted too much of my forces to the Jail Hill side, but we'll see. The tennis courts were hit by a full battalion.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

One of the main challenges facing the Brits is the number of options open to the Gerpanese as to how to use their forces. Essentially, the Brit line can be hit at any point, from any side, at any time, and in any strength. Therefore, the Brit player has to think very carefully about his setup: what he will defend, in what strength, and how he will fight the battle in terms of his own mobility. The same terrain features that allow the Gerpanese to move everywhere more or less unseen work for the Brits as well.

So at the bottom line, although the Brit player needs a good plan to start out with, this plan has to be flexible enough to deal with all the possibilities. I think this will give this scenario some replay value.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I made a short stand there before pulling back up the hill, inflicting 2-1 casualties or better in most situations. I took heavy losses on the ridge at the top of Garrison hill, but have committed most of my reserves there to bolster the defense, and have pulled back just over the ridge so now the Japs are getting mowed down as they top it one and 2 squads at a time. The rest of that enemy battalion is under arty fire from 2 25pdr spotters and the 3 inch mortars. I have made better use of the guns this time.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are learning what the Brits learned in this campaign: that the Japanese are not invincible in the jungle

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>On a side not, are the paths of scattered trees meant to represent paths? They always end up being used as very slow roads.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The scatter tree lanes are intended to represent very marginal trails/roads. You could get vehicles over them but not easily.

Thanks for looking at this again. Hope you're enjoying it more this time

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-Bullethead

In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria.

[Bullethead]

James Bailey said:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I haven't had time to play Kohima Ridge yet, and was wondering what side I should play vs. AI? I generally enjoy playing against the AI when it is on the offensive (I think it handles offensive tactics in a more realistic fashion), so I was leaning towards playing as the Brits. This decision was reinforced by a quick scan of the above discussion, but I wanted to get your thoughts on it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This scenario is difficult for the AI on either side. There is no way to tell the Brit AI that Garrison Hill is the one it has to hold onto regardless, so it spreads itself out and stays too long in unimportant areas. OTOH, the complexity of the terrain gives the Gerpanese AI problems in coordinating its forces.

Personally, I think it's fun from either side. As the Brits, you really have to play well to keep from being stomped. But as the Gerpanese, you get to play with all the options available, and have to play well to keep your more ambitious plans from being dislocated.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Also, I thought the map looked excellent -- not as good as your Volcano, but a close second!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks That map took me about 4 full days to make. So did the volcano, but for different reasons. With the volcano, I was having to tweak it constantly to get the slopes passable for vehicles in the right places. With Kohima, I was constantly taking measurments off a map and doing scaling calculations to convert that into CM tiles.

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-Bullethead

In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria.

[Bullethead]

Alex said:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>BTW I am playing it through again from the Brit side, just finishing my setup. As to that, I would suggest setting up the troops in some sort of formation instead of squares.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What I did here was lay out the units on both sides in "parade ground" formation so the player could easily see how many companies and what type of support weapons he has. Then, knowing what his force was, he could place them as desired.

I did this due to my own personal taste. In scenarios where units are pre-deployed but still free to be set up in different locations, I find it difficult to determine exactly what I have. So I always have to spend time putting everybody into "parade ground" formation like this, count noses, look at leaders' bonuses, etc, and THEN decide where I want everybody. IOW, I never leave units in default positions and find it easier to put them where I think best if they are not in default positions already.

So that's how I put the units on the map here. Considering that most Brit setup areas of a given color are split into several regions of the map, and given the size of some of the Gerpanese setup areas, I thought it would be best to use the "parade ground" formation as the default position in this scenario.

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-Bullethead

In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria.

[curih]

Back from class and practice, so a little more analysis. I've played a few turns since my last post.

I'm still in control of Garrison Hill, with at least 2 companies of Gerpanese layed out in front of me. My forces there are dwindling a little, and suffering under arty, but still holding well.

In the middle, a little over a platoon continued on after smashing through the tennis courts. They're going to get one of my AT guns that I set up on the road soon, but should then walk right into a flamethrower ambush.

On the Jail Hill side, I've just pulled back and have momentarily lost contact with the enemy. Arty is dropping on them, and I expect a new attack soon. The tanks are starting down the scattered trees path, at least 3 of them, but i managed to get one of the AT guns in there in the beginning, so I'm optomistic about that.

I'll report in again after a few more turns. I think with my superior intelligence this time I may not be forced to surrender.

[This message has been edited by curih (edited 12-18-2000).]

[curih]

I'm taking down the screen shots to free up some space on my server.

[This message has been edited by curih (edited 12-24-2000).]

[Bullethead]

Alex said:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I'm still in control of Garrison Hill, with at least 2 companies of Gerpanese layed out in front of me. My forces there are dwindling a little, and suffering under arty, but still holding well.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The screenshot of that area looks quite gruesome Rather like in real life, too, from what I gather.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>On the Jail Hill side, I've just pulled back and have momentarily lost contact with the enemy. Arty is dropping on them, and I expect a new attack soon. The tanks are starting down the scattered trees path, at least 3 of them, but i managed to get one of the AT guns in there in the beginning, so I'm optomistic about that.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Looks like you're doing a nice withdrawal there, making the Gerpanese pay as they advance. Should be a nasty fight shaping up there. Just hope the Gerpanese don't hit you from the west

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-Bullethead

In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria.

[curih]

Well, I finished it. I had to surrender again because of a misjudgement on my part.

The AI took Garrison Hill and the platoon between there and the bulk of my troops was destroyed. I made the decision to abandon my line smash through the remnats on the Garrison Hill assault and reoccupy the hill. The plan almost worked, but unfortunately I made the decision the same turn that the AI launched it's assault on my main line. I outran them at first and did indeed destroy most of the leftovers from Garrison Hill, but I got hung up on a group of MG42s and the assault caught up to me. I surrendered at this point because I was unable to maneauver away from the assault and was stuck in a position that was indefensible from that side. At the end i still had a full company, the AI had been chasing me with a battalion. The battalion that started by Garrison Hill was completely destroyed, and inexplicably, the AI left over 2 companies on the ridge beyond Jail Hill, only slightly displaced from their starting positions. The AAR listed an Axis tactical victory, but had i played it out I would have been destroyed as the MG42s were preventing me from maneauvering.

I still think that the arty needs a little tweaking. Perhaps, instead of the TRP idea, maybe just bump the spotter's experience level up a notch or two? As it is, not only is the delay very long, but the dispersion is very wide, over 200m. I accidentally knocked out the one AT gun I manged to tow across the map like that.

Alex

[Bullethead]

Alex said:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Well, I finished it. I had to surrender again because of a misjudgement on my part.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

After playing it twice, do you think it's still unwinnable for the Brits? Besides your arty suggestion below, is there anything else that might need tweaking?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I still think that the arty needs a little tweaking. Perhaps, instead of the TRP idea, maybe just bump the spotter's experience level up a notch or two? As it is, not only is the delay very long, but the dispersion is very wide, over 200m. I accidentally knocked out the one AT gun I manged to tow across the map like that.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Upping the FO experience is a very good suggestion. I like this much better than TRPs.

As to pattern size, my experiments have shown that FO experience has no effect on this--it only affects how long it takes for FFE to start. Pattern size, it seems to me, is a function solely of the following factors: whether or not there is a TRP, whether or not the FO has an LOS, and what type of weapon the FO controls (guns, mortars, or rockets).

When the FO doesn't have an LOS, CM uses the same basic pattern as with an LOS. However, 2 things happen that are different. First, blind arty usually takes several more spotting rounds before FFE starts, and these spotting rounds are often way off target. This is OK with me. But second, periodically CM will kick a few rounds very wide DURING the FFE. This is patently unrealistic and hopefully will be changed in CM2.

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-Bullethead

In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria.

[curih]

I don't think it's unwinnable, when I know where the Gerpanese are starting. Garrison Hill ended in mutual destruction, me using just about a company to the AI's battalion. And had I positioned my last stand there a little bit better at the beginning (I had to reposition just over the edge of the ridge, rather than being exposed on the edge) I probably would have won.

On the other side of the battle I'm not so sure. On the Jail Hill side i have about a copany and a half facing 2 battalions. It would be possible to keep them off of Garrison Hill during the time frame of the scenario, but the Gerpanese would be in a position to take it basically whenever they want. I think that it's winnable only because of the fact that the game imposes a time limit. Though that may not be totally unrealistic. It simulates the Brits trying to hold out long enough for the reserves to arrive.

I'm trying it from the Gerpanese side now. I've taken most of Jail Hill, though i lost the first 3 tanks that poked their noses out of the woods, and had a little over a platoon badly mauled by the defending brits and a well timed arty barrage.

At the other end I'm making good progress into the tennis courts with light casualties. The MG42's are getting into position and I've been able to isolate the defenders and attack 1 or 2 units at a time.

I have a company from each end making their way through the jungle in the Brits rear. I intend for them to join up and attack the center a few turns after i open an assault from the front with another 2 companies from the black deployment area. I expect to easily overwhelm the line there and effectively split the defenders.

That's all for now.

curih

[Armdchair]

It's not unwinnable, just extremely challenging. My first two attempts I got overrun so fast I surrendered after 15 turns. I was under the impression I had to defend all the zones from all directions; that's why I said what goes in the Allied briefing is crucial.

My third attempt I "won" a minor victory; as I stated the first time, if the Axis had had a few more turns, there would have been nothing left of me but a greasy spot.

In my third try---

I set up the engineer plt ( evacuating the Kuki Picquet zone), a rifle plt, 3-mortar section, and Vickers MG in the treeline along the edges of the tennis court & club area in an L-shaped formation. I further reinforced the area w/ 3 carriers & the 25-pder. I rushed another plt up from the blue zone as soon as I could. When Axis forces tried to flank the engineers from the northwest, they ran into this unit. Acting on a tip from GonzoAttacker, I torched ( w/ my flamethrower team) the tree cover next to the tennis court on turn one. In addition, I called in arty on the two most probable routes of attack, north & east. This was the only outright victory I would win.

I set up the 6-pders in ambush positions along the east-west paved road.

To cover the dirt roads leading north that Axis armor used, I set up choke points, reinforced plts w/ PIAT teams.

On Jail Hill, I practiced a fighting withdrawal with the company there. I covered the retreat with large amounts of arty. The company withdrew along the scattered-tree trail on the back side of the DIS zone.

Garrison Hill I occupied with troops from the blue zone & survivors from tennis court-club battle.

My choke points & ambushes along the road were overrun eventually, survivors falling back to Garrison Hill.

At the game's end, there were still plenty of enemy troops & armor advancing on Garrison Hill, barely being held off my scraps & remnants of troops. I was only able to delay the Axis forces, not defeat them. I think that is that's probably all the British can hope to do in this scenario, but who knows? I'm not exactly a great player, AI frequently kicks my ass, so what do I know? Maybe it's fitting that some scenarios should stand as both realistic and difficult, serving as lessons in humility for CM players, and giving us all a profound respect for those who suffered through the real thing.

[Bullethead]

OK, I'm back from the Horrordays. Hope Santa gave you all more than you deserve and that 2001 brings you all fame, glory, and the heads of your enemies on pikes in the garden

Anyway, I guess Alex and Armdchair's last comments can best be summed up by this quote from Armdchair:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>At the game's end, there were still plenty of enemy troops & armor advancing on Garrison Hill, barely being held off my scraps & remnants of troops. I was only able to delay the Axis forces, not defeat them. I think that is that's probably all the British can hope to do in this scenario, but who knows? I'm not exactly a great player, AI frequently kicks my ass, so what do I know? Maybe it's fitting that some scenarios should stand as both realistic and difficult, serving as lessons in humility for CM players, and giving us all a profound respect for those who suffered through the real thing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree that there is value in modeling hopeless battles for the above-stated reasons. However, that's not quite the effect I was looking for here. So, sounds like I need to tone down the Gerpanese a bit, so that it's still very challenging but not such a long shot.

In the real thing, the Brits managed to hold Garrison Hill, although only just barely, and largely thanks to the battered Gerpanese not realizing they had them on the ropes and calling off their last attack. However, this Gerpanese failure in part was due to the extreme difficulty in coordinating their various formations in this terrain. This led to attacks in sequence by different units that were supposed to go in together.

Taking out some MG42 teams has already been suggested and should probably be done. But is that enough? What about making some of the Gerpanese troops in each BN be reinforcements? Or have some of them start the game exhausted so it takes several turns before they can really move? That might be a good abstraction for the historical C^3I problems in that they're all supposed to be there at once but some are delayed.

Any other suggestions?

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-Bullethead

In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria.

[curih]

Well, now that I'm back, it's time to resurrect this old thread and continue my action report.

First a suggestion, remove the VLs on the Pimple and Ridge near it. The AI as Brits actually tried to advance a unit or 2 towards them.

Well, Jail Hill has finally come under my control. The AI defended it more heavily than I expected and hit me with one very costly arty barrage that was clearly observed (still haven't found him). In taking the hill I lost about a company, not all dead but the remnants aren't really combat effective (less than half squads with low ammo). I have 2 platoons pursuing the brits, while two more are going to hit their left flank and a full company is closing on their right rear. I expect this group of Brits to be completely destroyed.

In the center of the Brit line I have a company waiting in the woods to assault across the paved road and cut off the Brits when they are forced to retreat.

The tennis courts are mine. I have made rapid progress there with light losses, assaulting from the sharp turn in the road toward the tennis courts. As I finished securing that area, a company crossed the paved road a little further to the right and has started up the hill the flank the retreating defenders. This group stumbled upon the 25pdr and it was quickly dispatched at the cost of half a HMG team. Incidentaly the AI put that gun in the same place I did during my first game.

My final company is attempting to circle and attck Garrison Hill from the rear. Unfortunately, they've been slowed by scattered units the AI left in there (a squad, an AT team, a spotter, and a couple HQ units).

If I get a chance I'll post some screen shots.

Alex

[curih]

I have one other suggestion, I don't know what the Japanese were using in this battle, but I find 75mm artillery to be almost useless. It has a ridiculously long delay (considering that generally the smaller calibers have shorter delays) making it difficult to use in supporting an attack, and even after it starts to fall it has very little effect.

I also still think that the scenerio could be evened out a litle by tweaking the brit artillery a little. The 25pdrs have the needed punch, but a very long delay. I think either TRPs or more experienced spotters would help the brits a lot.

Alex

[curih]

Well, I'm a few more turns into the Gerpanese attack. The D.I.S. just feel to me. It was defended by just under a platoon and fell to a platoon with supporting fire from the tanks. The Brits appear much weaker than I expected in this sector. I had well over a company prepared for this assault, but they appear to have been unnecessary.

On Garrison Hill, two platoons advancing up the rear slope have meticulously destroyed the scattered units there. The company that crossed the road has made good progress, losing almost a platoon in exchange for just over a platoon, definitely acceptable for a heavy jungle attack. The AI appears to still have some troops in the heavy woods on the side of Garrison Hill, but they have only put up spotty resistance and have mostly been isolated and destroyed one and two at a time.

The Brits appear to be beaten, I expect a surrender fairly soon, there should be another 2 platoons or so to deal with first, and 2 AT guns are still unaccounted for.

Appraisal:

Most of the attack moved quickly. Casualties were at least on a 1-1 basis when not more in my favor, with one exception. The AI put up a spectacular fight on Jail Hill. Had the forces been more evenly balanced in the area I most likely would have lost. I estimated the AI to have had about a company on the hill. I took out his on board mortars before the main attack, but still lost about a company and half plus 4 tanks in taking the hill.

Alex

[curih]

It's over. The Gerpanese soundly crushed the Brits with well over a full battalion remaining.

BulletHead, you said before that the Brits main defense should be on Garrison Hill. I'd suggest making Jail Hill less valuable. The AI fought to the last man there. I don't have much experience making scenerios. Is it possible to change the values of the flags beyond just small and large?

A side note; I didn't realize that 25pdr were 88mm (sextons?). They pack a whallop. I thought they were roughly equal to 105s from the effect they were having.

Alex

[Bullethead]

Alex-

Thanks for all the comments. I'll try to hit all your points from all 4 messages:

1. Gerpanese Arty

Yup, it sucks, but that's realistic. The division attacking Kohima had to leave most of its arty behind and arrived with only a few of the lightest of its guns: 70mm Type 92s and 75mm Type 94s. Further, each gun had only 100 rounds for the whole offensive. Finally, it was very difficult to coordinate this fire with the advance of units on the other side of a jungle-covered mountain so they pretty much just did prepfires before assaults instead of trying to call fire on the fly. So on the whole, due to the time compression of this scenario, I think the Gerpanese have about the right amount of the right type of ammo.

2. Brit Arty

I agree, the Brit arty needs enhancing. I'll go with raising their experience in the next version. And maybe have a couple of TRPs to represent registrations later in the battle. It would be nice to restrict them to the Garrison Hill area but I don't think this is possible without completely locking them in place, which I don't want to do.

And yes, the 25pdr was 88mm, so the 105s that filled the same role in other armies were about 50% more powerful per shell but had a slightly lower ROF.

3. Gerpanese-held Objectives

I've also had the AI Brits waste strength trying to take these objectives so I agree, they should be removed. OTOH, this will allow the Gerpanese player to bring more force to bear on the Brit-held objectives w/out fear of losing anything in his rear.

4. Decrease Value of Jail Hill Objective

This seems to be a very good idea. The AI Brits fight too hard for this, allowing them to be destroyed in widely separated chunks. AFAIK, there is no way to change the value of a flag except by making is small or large, so I guess this needs a small flag.

OK, I think it's time for a new version. I will make the above changes and we'll see how that works. I will also add briefings. If it's still pretty much a walk-over for the Gerpanese, I'll then try reducing or delaying their manpower.

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-Bullethead

In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria.

[curih]

BulletHead,

There was one other issue with this scenario that I forgot to mention. When I open it in CM the game beeps repeatedly, and as I've played more it beeps more. It's up to about 2 dozen, maybe more. The game seems to play fine and it only happens with this scenerio.

curih