Default time in QBs

[James Crowley]

From what I have seen, the default time is still 30 mins.

Given that;

1) the pace of the game is slower, especially for infantry.

2) there is greater variation in terrain and weather conditions.

3) there is an extra-large map setting,

is there not a case for the default time to be dynamically tuned to the map/terrain/weather? (or perhaps it is! I don't know as I haven't got my copy yet)

It seems reasonable to assume that a primarily AFV force will be able to cover a small map, in clear terrain and good weather far faster than foot-plodders moving through swamp or thick snow on a large map.

[PeterX]

Good point. And a little more ammo, as well.

[Agua]

Nice idea, but it sounds like it would require quite a bit of consideration and study to determine what amounts to a "proper" default number of turns given the force size, map size, terrain type: too much to work with when all you need to do is change the number of turns.

A more pressing need, and one that I'm surprised wasn't addressed with CMBB, especially in light of the new "HUGE" map size parameter, is the limitation of only 60 turns. For really huge QB's, even with CMBO, a 60 turn battle just isn't enough time. With the slower pace of CMBB, that shortcoming is exaggerated. An option to allow up to, say, 100 turns is needed.

[Sytass]

Also, variable scenario length can be to one's disadvantage at times.

I was doing a QB in summer '43 with SS infantry advancing through thick woods, pushing back the Soviets thoroughly, taking position after position.

Then, when their main resistance as broken, they called for a cease fire on turn 20 (of a set 25) turning the battle into a draw...

Two turns more and they would have lost the last of two objectives. I had taken minimal losses whereas they had suffered dearly from my MG42's and arty. Their troops were shattered, panicked or eliminated (they never used their armored cars, though).

[Silvio Manuel]

Originally posted by Sytass:

Then, when their main resistance as broken, they called for a cease fire on turn 20 (of a set 25) turning the battle into a draw...

Two turns more and they would have lost the last of two objectives. I had taken minimal losses whereas they had suffered dearly from my MG42's and arty. Their troops were shattered, panicked or eliminated (they never used their armored cars, though).

What do you mean by "they called for a cease fire." Was it an auto cease-fire such that you had no choice, and the game just ended? In CMBO that only happened when both sides Global Morale went below 25%. ??

[Sytass]

Originally posted by Silvio Manuel:

What do you mean by "they called for a cease fire." Was it an auto cease-fire such that you had no choice, and the game just ended? In CMBO that only happened when both sides Global Morale went below 25%. ??

You could be right on that - at least I know I didn't call for a cease fire.

Of course the auto save has been overwritten by my next game, so there's no way for me to check. Guess I'll have to keep my eyes on that next time.

[Michael Emrys]

Sytass, it sounds to me like you may have just triggered an Auto Surender, which happens when one side's morale falls below 15% and the other side's morale is at least four times as great. See p. 43 of the manual.

Otherwise, it's just puzzling. By the way, just because one side calls for a cease-fire doesn't mean that the other side automatically has to acept it. Exception: the AI always accepts a cease-fire request from the human player.

Michael

[ September 29, 2002, 05:26 PM: Message edited by: Michael emrys ]

[General Tacticus]

This would be a "Force Readiness" issue. (pg 44)

Basically - both sides are low on ammo (your men decide what low means, not you...and stop advancing...they are willing to use a lot more ammo during an assult, and less during a probe.

[AUSSIEJEFF]

Originally posted by Agua:

Nice idea, but it sounds like it would require quite a bit of consideration and study to determine what amounts to a "proper" default number of turns given the force size, map size, terrain type: too much to work with when all you need to do is change the number of turns.

A more pressing need, and one that I'm surprised wasn't addressed with CMBB, especially in light of the new "HUGE" map size parameter, is the limitation of only 60 turns. For really huge QB's, even with CMBO, a 60 turn battle just isn't enough time. With the slower pace of CMBB, that shortcoming is exaggerated. An option to allow up to, say, 100 turns is needed.

That is surprising, Agua. Might force more design of Operation style scenarios to "pad out" the turns as it were? Hmmm........ any comment from BFC on this?

AJ

[Sytass]

Thanks for the great input, everyone.

I'm relatively sure that my morale during the engagement was not that bad, most squads were at "OK", some were "CAUTIOUS" a few pinned and one ore two in panic. Ammo might well be an issue as I delivered heavy support fire for the advancing troops who then in turn gave heavy support fire.

As for the cease fires, it seems the AI doesn't always accept, at least not immediately. I was playing another QB with Volkssturm defending against a Soviet assault. The Russians bled out in my defenses (altough I did lose quite some men, too), and their armor fell prey to my Panzerschrecks.

Not sure if there weren't more troops to come I asked for a ceasy fire at turn 25 (of 30+). At that point I still held (barely) onto 4 of 5 objectives, and it was more or less a matter of time till they'd fall.

I asked for a ceasefire to preserve a win, but the AI didn't accept, instead we played till turn 33 (tactical victory for Germany ). I assume that morale/overall situation plays a role in the AI accepting the ceasefire?

[James Crowley]

Originally posted by Agua:

Nice idea, but it sounds like it would require quite a bit of consideration and study to determine what amounts to a "proper" default number of turns given the force size, map size, terrain type: too much to work with when all you need to do is change the number of turns.

A more pressing need, and one that I'm surprised wasn't addressed with CMBB, especially in light of the new "HUGE" map size parameter, is the limitation of only 60 turns. For really huge QB's, even with CMBO, a 60 turn battle just isn't enough time. With the slower pace of CMBB, that shortcoming is exaggerated. An option to allow up to, say, 100 turns is needed.

I agree on the last point, about maximum size of battle, makes sense.

However, in regard to the first point, that doesn't work if you are choosing to have everything chosen randomly - you do not know what weather, ground conditions, type of force, etc. that you are going to get.

I would have thought that the problem could be overcome, to some extent, through a broad brush stroke approach. In other words, as the map size goes from small to medium another, say, 5 minutes is addded. Then another 5 for medium to large etc.

Ditto for large hills, heavy tree coverage, heavy snow etc. Then a final adjustment for force type.

Might not be perfect but somewhat better than nothing at all.