CMBO - Panzer IV vs. Sherman M3

[JeremyCupit]

Okay the question:

Is the Panzer IV a match for the vanilla Sherman M3?

The point cost is roughly (+/- 10, from memory) the same, but IMHO I feel that the Panzer is outclassed by the Sherm.

Has anyone got any comments on this subject, and/or good tactics for use with the Panzer against the Sherman? What are the main problems with the Panzer IV?

Thanks,

Jeremy

[whizbang]

I've only played CMBB and have found that the PIVG is an absolutely superb fighting machine equal and superior to T-34's. I have not tried it against the Sherman but will do so by substituting Shermans for T-34's in 2nd Panzer Advance and report back.

[Dook]

My experience with Pz IVs is that if you use them like you use other German AFVs (Stug, Hetzer, Panther), you are in trouble. They don't have the thick or sloped or both armor of those other tanks. My PZ IVs get punctured like tin cans.

On the other hand, the PZ IVs have a turret, which the Stug and the Hetzer lack.

The upshot is that you need to use the PZ IV differently than many other German AFVs to maximize its advantages and minimize its weaknesses.

As far as a head-to-head comparison with the Sherman, I'm not a tank grog but my impression is that the Pz IV's gun may be better than the Sherman's, so you might try to engage at long distance if you are playing the German side. Note too that although the PZ IV has a turret, it's still not as fast as the Sherman's (I think).

[Silvio Manuel]

Assuming we're talking about "vanilla" Shermans...

Keep Panzer IV as far back as possible; out at 1000m it will really shine, though you'll almost never get that chance in a typical CMBO game. I remember playing an all-Greens game, where my Shermans would blow smoke and back aay from Pz IV and StuG at 750m, due to the superior German guns (Muzzle Velocity= PzIV 750m/s, StuG 770m/s, Sherman 619m/s).

Panzer IV has slightly better ground pressure so it can traverse worse terrain a little better. Sherman has the extra "flexible" .50cal MG (a 3rd MG) which can dice up light AFV, and be fired in an AA role if unbuttoned when the planes show up.

Panzer IV will start to be in deep trouble if the Shermans can close the range, maybe to 200m, as the medium (IV-J has SLOW turret & no better armor) vs. fast turret start to really hurt it. Sherman has a better 75mm HE shell, too- 39 blast to 34. One more thing- this came up big time in a recent night game where visibility was only ~180m- since the Panzer IV's M.V. is higher, the shell trajectory is flatter, so if you're firing HE at nearby infantry targets, you're more likely to shoot long or short, which really sucks if you're aiming at a bazooka who just missed and is reloading.

[Redwolf]

The Sherman (M4, not M3) has a fast turret but unless it is a HVSS model its mobility on anything but roads stinks.

You should avoid duel with Panzer IVs unless you can get to close range (then the fast turret pays off) and instead shoot up enemy infantry. Of course, the bad mbility will mean that you might not be able to avoid the Panzer for long, but that's what it's like when you build a tank which is thin and lame at the same time.

[Kingfish]

Something to consider when comparing the vanilla Shermans against the late war Mark IVs, although the Sherman can take out the German tank in all but the longest ranges, it really wasn't designed for head to head engagements with enemy armor. Instead, it was intended to be used as an infantry support / breakthrough tank, while other vehicles specifically designed as tank killers would tackle the likes of the Mark IV / Panther / Tiger.

For the Americans, they had the M10 / M18 series tank destroyers. The Commonwealth fielded the Wolverine and Firefly.