CMBB RATINGS?

[BismarckB]

hello all;

Which overall rating would you give CM2?

Please try to argue (pro. and contras) and consider the first game (better, harder?)

What do you think about GameZone score of 6.8?

Is the game really so revolutionary like the Beyond Overlord?

Considering of buying the game, so please be objective!

[ October 24, 2002, 03:29 PM: Message edited by: BismarckB ]

[Pack Kuma]

Pros: If you liked CMBO, you will *love* this version. The graphics are noticeably much better, with lots of little details that make the whole game more immersive; for instance, look at the Wehrmacht soldiers, and you will see each item in their backpack kit. The detail only gets better as you zoom in, down to individual rivets on tank armor; every soldier has a different face. I wasn't a huge fan of the first title, among other reasons since you had to download 50,000 mods to make it look really good. This version is all set as is, and with the patch it will be even better. I would say that the score of 6.8 was pretty low. IMHO, a hard core wargamer would no doubt give it something around 8 at minimum; I'd give it a 9.5.

Cons: If you didn't like CMBO, you may still like this one, however, if you don't like the "wego" system you're wasting your money, it's that all over again and I have to admit it took some getting used to for me--I used to really like Close Combat and still do like Steel Panthers.

Another pro: The graphics are the best I've ever seen in a tactical level wargame, bar none. One of my favorite things to do in this version is just zoom around the terrain and look at things, especially on a windy, blizzardly (?) day. The atmosphere is really...atmospheric, howling winds, birds chirping, and it all feels more realistic to me than the first one--ie, less like you're playing with toy tanks and more like with real ones.

[BismarckB]

thx Pack you make a good point....What about the hard difficulty? It seems that AI is hard like a rock

[Barrold]

Hi BismarkB and welcome to the forum.

I think that most of the people here including myself would have the admittedly biased opinion that that particular review was off-based.

The main question you should ask is whether you enjoy a realistic wargame or if you are open to broadening your horizons into a new genre.

I don't want to assume you have experience with CM:BO, but if you enjoyed the first game, the nearly universal appraisal thus far is that it is a superior game. While the improvements may not be a revolutionary step like CMBO, but it is definitely an evolutionary stretch of the envelope currently possible with the present engine.

The improvements made to the original game are legion and they are manifestly integral to the new feel of the game.

The question of whether it is more difficult than CMBO is a sticky one. Does it require the player to redefine the tactics that were successful in the original. I would say most definitely. In my opinion this does not make it more difficult to play because the interface is essentially the same, but the curve to master the game is just set back to when the original game arrived.

The addition of the new commands gives the player a great deal of flexibility and shows the level to which BFC listens to its fanbase. Much that has been gained is a direct result of the debates over the perceived shortcomings in the system in the first game.

The atmosphere of the sequel is greatly enhanced by superb new sounds, the graphics have been kicked up a notch through bigger tiles, better vehicle models, better infantry representations, and various cool effects to add immersion. The game seems much fuller as a result.

So if the first game was great, the second is the full realization of their view. If the genre appeals to you, it is very likely that you will get a great deal of entertainment from the game. With the near infinite level of replay value from the quick battles, powerful scenario editor, and the talented designers here in the forum community, you will have plenty to keep you interest for a long time.

I am not sure how objective this is but it is an honest opinion. I don't think the reviewer was much on wargames so his level of interest might not be appropriate for this type of game. For a gamer who enjoys a realistic and historically accurate simulation of tactical combat on the East Front, this is not only the only game in town, it is the Mecca we have wanted to see for a long time.

BDH

[Pvt. Ryan]

I would rate it T for Teen due to some violence.

[LGMB]

I would rate it "W" for "Wargame." Since no one can seem to figure this game genrre out.

[akdavis]

Originally posted by BismarckB:

thx Pack you make a good point....What about the hard difficulty? It seems that AI is hard like a rock

I would say that it is more difficult, but in a good way. There are more orders to learn, but these let you do more things. Now, more than ever, real life tactics pay off. The AI is more challenging as well, but this helps make every battle different. You will not find one proven tactic that you can defeat the AI with in every situation.

[Pack Kuma]

Since as I recall with CMBO, I spent most of my time downloading mods and not enough time playing! With CMBB I feel like it's already where it should be, except for maybe some snow covered vehicles

Another thing: I never did learn to play CMBO that well--I just wasn't that motivated for some reason, but I've been VERY motivated with CMBB because it just feels like a much more polished package overall.

[Epée]

Don't pay much attention to the AI comments on that review. Some of the included scenarios are balanced to be hard against the AI. But you can regularly beat the AI in Quick battles and most scenarios. If I recall correctly, that review says the AI can react perfectly or see perfectly to what you are doing. That is rubbish.

If you buy it, try playing it mostly against humans , which is heaps more fun anyway.

CMBB is a brilliant game.

[BismarckB]

thx for replay all,,,but what are the main changes?( ok graphics and sound.) Is interface the same?

[Pzman]

The interface gives you far more information, if you have a good internet connection I would try the demo's of CMBO and CMBB. Truthfully that is the best was to test whether or not you like the interface. IMO the interface in CMBB is better all in all.

[Thermopylae]

Machine guns with grazing fire!

[BismarckB]

There are some new orders,,,which do you use most?

[Aussie Smith]

It's a nice game.

Not as ground breaking as CMBO but the improvements are well used and appreciated. I hope we'll backdate the improvements as I still play CMBO.

My fav command.....'Move to Hull Down'.

My most used (new) command 'Cover Arc'.

All up I'd give it 7.5/10.

[Sunflower Farm Boy]

Originally posted by BismarckB:

What do you think about GameZone score of 6.8?

The only part of the GameZone review I agree with is the 'acquired taste' part. Just like pulling on a fine glass of scotch...it only gets better the more you have (of course not all in one night).

[Stacheldraht]

You will not find one proven tactic that you can defeat the AI with in every situation.

Sure, just wait for them all to casually walk in a big crowd towards the biggest victory flags while their tanks aimlessly ride around in circles

Seriously, the strategic/operational-level AI is still generally weak in CMBB, particularly against experienced players, and particularly on the offensive (meeting engagements, probes, attacks, assaults). It's often pitiful in user-generated quick battles--a CMBO vet should be able to inflict ten times as many casualties as received in nearly any balanced game--i.e., one without a huge force size bonus for the AI enemy. The AI still more than holds its own against newbies, where it's a great way to have fun learning the game.

The tactical AI generally seems to be even better than before (i.e., the AI determines how units react during each action phase to current circumstances--when to hit the dirt or continue moving, deciding which target to fire at with what ammo, etc.)

Overall, the game looks like a heavily modded version of CMBO with some cool added effects like muzzle recoil and big smoke puffs as heavy guns fire. In other words, CMBB looks decent overall--great for a wargame, but bland and dated, frankly, compared to most professional 3D strategy games (or 3D games of any type, really). The sounds are even more realistic and immersive than in CMBO.

The subject matter of CMBB is both more expansive and more limited. It's more limited in that it's just the Germans versus the Soviets with a few relatively minor allies (no flames from our Finnish friends, please ). It's more expansive in that it's the Germans versus the Soviets from June '41 to the end of the war in Europe across a gigantic geographical area--that's a vastly bigger temporal and spatial scale than CMBO. You get a massively larger number of units in CMBB, which can be hard for noobs to get a handle on, but great for WWII buffs to experiment and have fun with.

Overall, CMBB is bigger and even better than CMBO, as long as you don't mind a somewhat steeper learning curve because of the new orders, huge number of new units, and so forth. You'll also need to adjust the way you play to account for the increased effectiveness of machine guns, the changes to artillery spotting, and all the other minor and not-so-minor differences from CMBO's gameplay. For WWII buffs/grogs/wargamers/CMBO fans, I imagine that all these differences and extra challenges just add up to more fun. I know they do for me.

In a nutshell: great game, buy it!

PS Hell yes, it deserves better than a 6.8. Like any game, it's not for everyone, but if you're into WWII or wargames, CMBB is top notch overall.

[ October 27, 2002, 07:05 AM: Message edited by: Stacheldraht ]