Demo mission one, the easy mission, german side not so easy

[Stormhouse]

Hi, firt post on this board.

I have the demo game, the full game is in the mail.

The first mission is really easy on the allied side but dam hard on the german side. Does Jag tanks are useless, I move all three tanks to the church and use the church as cover and lay there in wait for the allied tanks to show up. But guess what they still get killed, the reaction time on the JAG tanks is just horrible can someon let me know how to win on the german side. My infantry is doing ok at keeping back the allied infantry I even manage to take out a tank with the rocket guys.

All the 3 jag tanks are moved the church area I tell them to aim at the incoming tanks they still rather fire at the infantry which is no threat to them, man there stupid.

[Dunnee]

those three "tanks" are actually assault guns without a turret, which means slow reaction time because they have to turn the whole vehicle to fire. In that scenario u should find the first hull down cover for those vehicles and rotate them to cover the front of your infantry's advance. If your assault guns are already in wait for the advancing shermans, they don't have to turn much to meet the threat, hence a faster target acquisition time. Stug's aren't really all that offensive, I find they are better in a lie and wait role to support infantry.

[Stormhouse]

Thanks, thats what I did, I move does Stug's to the hill and rotated them towards the areas where the allied tanks would show up, but guess what they still get taken out. I mean they really suck. I tell them to shot at a tank they dick around and shoot at infantry. Arrrgh

Also I do use the tactic lie in wait because I know they cant rotate as fast a tank turret. Man its really frustrating me, 3 nights of fighting with this mission and the results are still nill.

[Dunnee]

sounds like bad luck man, even an assault gun will target a tank before infantry. . .

[Agua]

SPOILER ______

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During Setup, set the Stugs to your left. There's a depression on the left side of the map, somewhere to the left of the church (It's been a few since I've played this). It is a perfect hull down location for the stugs. Once you get the Stugs in that location, and have them rotated towards the area between the edge of the woods and the crossroads, you can plink off every Sherman as it comes away from the cover provided by the woods. Incidentally, that scenario is a good one to practice obtaining hull down status. With the infantry, run the vast majority of them into the woods on the right, just inside the treeline fronting the allies' side of the map. Move the remainder of them to the woods behind the church. After you're taken out the Allied tanks, send the troops from the woods behind the church forward into the open, with your Stugs covering them. Also, with the infantry in the woods on the hill on your right, start advancing them, en masse, leaving only MG's in the edge of the woods to provide cover. Allies will break and run from that side somewhere around the otherside of the wheatfield. Then pivot the entire group towards the woods on the left and clean out the allied troops in those woods = total victory.

[ 04-26-2001: Message edited by: Agua ]

[Dunnee]

do what agua says and you'll do just fine. .

[Stormhouse]

Thanks guys, I'll be trying out does tips tonight when I get home after work, cant wait.

[Stormhouse]

Yes I was victorious playing as the germans, but I still lost all my tanks. Anyone do this mission and not lose one tank. I guess somehow its possible.

[rlh1138]

Those guys gave you good advise, here's a variation I've played and lost none, sometimes one StG. Have all the Stugs, (I think it's three?) on the road hidden out of sight. Have them turned to the left, targeting the area just in front of the church, a bit up hill actually. Infantry as suggested, but hide everybody and wait. The Amis will come to you. The Shermans will roll down the hill toward the church, and your Stugs will all be firing at once at each one. (Have them lined up in a row firing over each other, not line abreast) When they are all dead, use the infantry tactics given, or wait and have the Amis attack you without their tank support. Good training to see what happens to them. I've played this a lot, lost it many times, but really learned a lot from it. Good luck

Ray

[Gyrene]

Stormhouse, on my first time playing the German side I won the game very easily and had all my tanks by the end and I'm no Rommel, so its possible. I crept two of my Stug's along the edge of the woods on the hill until I had hull down status and a commanding view of the valley on the US side, and the other Stug was sent to the church side. By turn 5 all Shermans were out of action and my infantry owned the church and the tall light building by the farm.

Of course I knew the what the US side was bringing to the game, so it helped and having played the US side before I knew what the key terrain was.

Try it again, it's very possible to get a near perfect victory as the Germans on that map.

Gyrene

[Agua]

Storm,

The method I told you has resulted in wins without loss of tank, and sometimes with loss of one tank. The only fool proof way to keep from losing a tank is to keep it out of line of signt the entire game and never use it. If you get the things into a hull down position with as much firepower concentrated on one spot as you can muster, your chances of surviving with minimal loss are good.

[Jarmo]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Agua:

[QB] The only fool proof way to keep from losing a tank is to keep it out of line of signt the entire game and never use it.

/QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Testify! Testify!

I tried this scenario again about a week ago. I managed to get all

three Stug's in a perfect hulldown position. A single Sherman

stumbled into the ambush...

It was unreal, Flam! Flam! Flam! Three dead Stugs! :eek:

Most of my shots missed, the rest ricocheted.

And no, it wasn't even the Sherman+, just a plain stupid M4A3.

[Agua]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jarmo:

Testify! Testify!

I tried this scenario again about a week ago. I managed to get all

three Stug's in a perfect hulldown position. A single Sherman

stumbled into the ambush...

It was unreal, Flam! Flam! Flam! Three dead Stugs! :eek:

Most of my shots missed, the rest ricocheted.

And no, it wasn't even the Sherman+, just a plain stupid M4A3.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL!! I've had one recently that was about as bad. It was in a large city setting and three shermans are advancing up a street in "hunt" mode. A StuG appears approximately 2 blocks up the road from my pack o' tanks. The shermans get a couple, three shots off, missing each time. The StuG pops some smoke and destroys LOS the remainder of that turn. Next turn, the smoke dissipates and there are now THREE StuGs in front of me: Bang "PLANK"; Bang "PLANK"; Bang "PLANK". All Shermans dead, all StuG's alive and well..LOL!!! This was the A freaking I !!! I have never seen the a/i put together such a coordinated little combo like that before, and it surely was a freak thing but I couldn't believe it!!! I guess the only point is there is a big "sh*t happens" factor modeled into the game and it's one of the things that adds to why it is such a great pastime.

[CombinedArms]

Sometimes bad luck will happen to anyone--3 Stugs ambushing one Sherm and all getting killed is bad luck.

But this scenario just IS easier to win as Allies. When I was demoing away before the CD came, I once got at 98-2 score as Allies against the AI. I saw an AAR of 100-0, Allied human PBEM against experienced Axis human! So don't get too upset if you win as Axis but don't absolutely smash the opposition. The Allied force really is stronger. And the Axis strength is with its infantry. If you can neutralize the Allied tanks, even losing all your own, your infantry can win for you. There's no shame in that!

[Silvio Manuel]

I've also had success with sneaking the few Veteran German inf. squads all the way around the far far left woods patches and popping Shermans with 'Fausts while the rest of their infantry is occupied with crossing the wheatfield towards the big house on the right. Some MG42 support helped to suppress the Inf. they left behind opposite the Church.

[Stormhouse]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CombinedArms:

Sometimes bad luck will happen to anyone--3 Stugs ambushing one Sherm and all getting killed is bad luck.

But this scenario just IS easier to win as Allies. When I was demoing away before the CD came, I once got at 98-2 score as Allies against the AI. I saw an AAR of 100-0, Allied human PBEM against experienced Axis human! So don't get too upset if you win as Axis but don't absolutely smash the opposition. The Allied force really is stronger. And the Axis strength is with its infantry. If you can neutralize the Allied tanks, even losing all your own, your infantry can win for you. There's no shame in that!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

True, winning is winnig but I was trying to keep my win historical. What I mean is that germans cant allow for does kind of loses since they dont have any replacements.

[Jarmo]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stormhouse:

True, winning is winnig but I was trying to keep my win historical. What I mean is that germans cant allow for does kind of loses since they dont have any replacements.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Historically, while it's true the Germans couldn't allow

the kind of losses they took, they couldn't avoid them either.

Win or lose, the typical German losses were no less than typical

losses. In fact the German losses were usually larger.

It's not like a few Stugs here or there would affect much of

anything in the grand scale of warfare..

[Stormhouse]

Ya i know its just the idea that there's only a few left and they must last for as long as possible.

Anyone ever read Panzer Commader, I dont usually read books but this one I finished in 3 days. Its a really good book, there the memoirs or a German soldier. He fought along side rummel, the book is not to long and the author moves along at a good pace.

Anyway there was one instants where he describes a British advance of about 20 to 30 tanks and all he had was 3 88 AA guns. They managed to stop the entire advance, for some reason the British never learned to move up there infantry with there tanks, which the infantry could very easily take out the 88'ts. That’s what I'm talking about but for the British the very next day all does tanks would have been replaced.

Also the image he described was very cool and I would love to see in a movie. The 88'ts where place on one end of a wheat field and when firing the shells travelling through the wheat field looked like torpedo's

[Gyrene]

88's are nasty and infantry would have had a hard time across something as open as a wheat field also.

Gyrene

[Alex heritage]

im totally non-plused as to why everyone finds the german first demo so hard :confused:

all u do is get 2 stugs to go straight dow the road to the turning and sit side by side their at the turn and wait. they will get the jump on any sherman trying to come down the road, to your left flank or emerging from the woods. keep 1 tank just behind the big hill at the starter point and when the shermans are going for ure other two pop it up hhehehehhe oh yeah try an run to antitank fellah's into the church at the start if they get there fast, they wont be spotted and then u can pop em up and WASTE any shermans (if ure 81mm spaotter is up there u can use him to bring fire down on the americans goin across the wheat field hehehe. oh yeah i totally sympathise with the 3 stugs takin out by 1 sherman thing, I once had 3 shermans chasing a a panther tank shooting at the same time I SWEAR there must have been 10!!!! richocets, then the panther calmly turned round and over 2 turns knocked out ALL 3!!!!! :eek:

chaos ruled okay in the

classroom as bravely the

teacher walked in, the

hooligans ignored him

his voice was lost in the din

"the theme for today is violence

and homework will be set, i'm going

to teach you a lesson one you'll never

forget"

he picked on a boy who was shouting

and throttled him then and there and

then garroted the girl behind him (the

one with the awfull hair)

then with sword in hand he

hacked his way between the

chattering rows "first come first

served," he declared "fingers, feet or toes"

He threw the sword at a late-comer it struck

with deadly aim, the pulling

out a shotgun he continued with his game

the first blast cleared the back-row where

those who skive hang out, they collapsed

like rubber dingies, when their plugs

were out

the head popped a head round the door to

see why a din was being made, nodded

understandingly then tossed in a grenade

and when the ammo was well spaent with

blood on every chair, silence shuffled

forward with its hands up in the air. the

teacher surveyed the carnage, the dying and

the dead he waggled his finger

severely, "let that be a lesson" he said

roger Mcgough