WRG Posted April 12, 2001 Share Posted April 12, 2001 Clarification required, please: the Russians arrived on the outskirts of Warsaw in August 44 and stopped. Why: a) because Totenkopf and Wiking were in the way of further advance; because Stalin ordered a halt until the Germans in Warsaw had put down the uprising; c) because Operation Bagration was spent and their supply lines were overextended; d) some other reason/combination of reasons? Can anyone please help clarify this point? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRG Posted April 12, 2001 Author Share Posted April 12, 2001 Clarification required, please: the Russians arrived on the outskirts of Warsaw in August 44 and stopped. Why: a) because Totenkopf and Wiking were in the way of further advance; because Stalin ordered a halt until the Germans in Warsaw had put down the uprising; c) because Operation Bagration was spent and their supply lines were overextended; d) some other reason/combination of reasons? Can anyone please help clarify this point? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babra Posted April 12, 2001 Share Posted April 12, 2001 I believe "B" is the general consensus. I don't know what other factors may have played a role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babra Posted April 12, 2001 Share Posted April 12, 2001 I believe "B" is the general consensus. I don't know what other factors may have played a role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen. Sosaboski Posted April 12, 2001 Share Posted April 12, 2001 Yes, my answer would be B. This is why I do not particularly like playing the Russians, but then agan, maybe my opinion is biased . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen. Sosaboski Posted April 12, 2001 Share Posted April 12, 2001 Yes, my answer would be B. This is why I do not particularly like playing the Russians, but then agan, maybe my opinion is biased . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molotov Posted April 12, 2001 Share Posted April 12, 2001 the correct answer could be C because they wereom the advance for a long time and the Poles in warsaw started the uprising early thinking that the Russians would arrive quickly. The Russians did give the Poles support but most of the men got shot crossing the Vistula in boats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molotov Posted April 12, 2001 Share Posted April 12, 2001 the correct answer could be C because they wereom the advance for a long time and the Poles in warsaw started the uprising early thinking that the Russians would arrive quickly. The Russians did give the Poles support but most of the men got shot crossing the Vistula in boats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crossfire Posted April 12, 2001 Share Posted April 12, 2001 But their lines were overextended too. They had no plans to cross Wisla at that point. Their rate of advance was slowing significantly before they got to Praga (east side of Warsaw) They could have tried to do more to free Warsaw and with some success I am sure. But they had no such plans and they were not prepared for it. And then of course they did not want to help Capitalist goverment of Poland that fought them just 20 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crossfire Posted April 12, 2001 Share Posted April 12, 2001 But their lines were overextended too. They had no plans to cross Wisla at that point. Their rate of advance was slowing significantly before they got to Praga (east side of Warsaw) They could have tried to do more to free Warsaw and with some success I am sure. But they had no such plans and they were not prepared for it. And then of course they did not want to help Capitalist goverment of Poland that fought them just 20 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Dave Posted April 12, 2001 Share Posted April 12, 2001 The answer is B. Unkie Joe took in all political considerations realizing that a post-war communist Poland would be easier to control without the existence of the 'old guard' so to speak. To make sure of things good ol' Joseph wouldn't even let American/British supply planes destined for Warsaw use airbases in the newly liberated countries making them fly from bases in Italy instead. Heart of gold that man... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Dave Posted April 12, 2001 Share Posted April 12, 2001 The answer is B. Unkie Joe took in all political considerations realizing that a post-war communist Poland would be easier to control without the existence of the 'old guard' so to speak. To make sure of things good ol' Joseph wouldn't even let American/British supply planes destined for Warsaw use airbases in the newly liberated countries making them fly from bases in Italy instead. Heart of gold that man... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GonzoAttacker Posted April 12, 2001 Share Posted April 12, 2001 Gentlemen, I like your personal reasons for your answers but what are your sources. I have learned the hard way in my schooling that you need to back up your comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GonzoAttacker Posted April 12, 2001 Share Posted April 12, 2001 Gentlemen, I like your personal reasons for your answers but what are your sources. I have learned the hard way in my schooling that you need to back up your comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Dave Posted April 12, 2001 Share Posted April 12, 2001 Gonzo, I'd love to be able to quote the source(s)where this factual information comes from. I agree with you that for issues of clarity and historical accuracy that sources should be made available...but seeing that this particular lecture took place in deepest darkest New Zealand many years ago I am going on pure memory. All I can say is... just take my word for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Dave Posted April 12, 2001 Share Posted April 12, 2001 Gonzo, I'd love to be able to quote the source(s)where this factual information comes from. I agree with you that for issues of clarity and historical accuracy that sources should be made available...but seeing that this particular lecture took place in deepest darkest New Zealand many years ago I am going on pure memory. All I can say is... just take my word for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Posted April 12, 2001 Share Posted April 12, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WRG: Clarification required, please: the Russians arrived on the outskirts of Warsaw in August 44 and stopped. Why: a) because Totenkopf and Wiking were in the way of further advance; because Stalin ordered a halt until the Germans in Warsaw had put down the uprising; c) because Operation Bagration was spent and their supply lines were overextended; d) some other reason/combination of reasons? Can anyone please help clarify this point? Thanks.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> When you also consider that the Soviet Union was behind the Katyn Woods massacre of thousands of Polish officers, its not hard to believe that they wanted the Germans to liquidate as many of the Poles and Jews as they could before the Red Army moved in. If the Germans had just kept retreating I havent the slightest doubt, again citing the Katyn Woods horror, that many of the same folks the Germans killed would have just been killed by the Red Army or the NKVD instead. But I have been called a cynic occasionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Posted April 12, 2001 Share Posted April 12, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WRG: Clarification required, please: the Russians arrived on the outskirts of Warsaw in August 44 and stopped. Why: a) because Totenkopf and Wiking were in the way of further advance; because Stalin ordered a halt until the Germans in Warsaw had put down the uprising; c) because Operation Bagration was spent and their supply lines were overextended; d) some other reason/combination of reasons? Can anyone please help clarify this point? Thanks.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> When you also consider that the Soviet Union was behind the Katyn Woods massacre of thousands of Polish officers, its not hard to believe that they wanted the Germans to liquidate as many of the Poles and Jews as they could before the Red Army moved in. If the Germans had just kept retreating I havent the slightest doubt, again citing the Katyn Woods horror, that many of the same folks the Germans killed would have just been killed by the Red Army or the NKVD instead. But I have been called a cynic occasionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veloboldie Posted February 12, 2002 Share Posted February 12, 2002 Norman Davies' "Heart of Europe" or "God's Playground: A History of Poland" are two excellent books that discuss Poland's contributions in WWII. Both are in print. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veloboldie Posted February 12, 2002 Share Posted February 12, 2002 Norman Davies' "Heart of Europe" or "God's Playground: A History of Poland" are two excellent books that discuss Poland's contributions in WWII. Both are in print. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grisha Posted February 12, 2002 Share Posted February 12, 2002 Wow, amazing how many thought it was 'B'! Cold War 1, Reality 0! In actuality it was more a) & c), than anything else. Having read both sides' story, I have to say that the Polish Home Government in London definitely had a political reason for signalling the uprising when it did, because it had no tactical sense to it at all. In fact, the Polish Home Army had no intention of seeking Soviet assistance, nor did it actively seek it(the Soviets did all of that). Having said that I can also say that Stalin lost no tears when the uprising failed. However, Rokossovsky's Front was in no position to give effective support, since it was at the end of its operational tether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grisha Posted February 12, 2002 Share Posted February 12, 2002 Wow, amazing how many thought it was 'B'! Cold War 1, Reality 0! In actuality it was more a) & c), than anything else. Having read both sides' story, I have to say that the Polish Home Government in London definitely had a political reason for signalling the uprising when it did, because it had no tactical sense to it at all. In fact, the Polish Home Army had no intention of seeking Soviet assistance, nor did it actively seek it(the Soviets did all of that). Having said that I can also say that Stalin lost no tears when the uprising failed. However, Rokossovsky's Front was in no position to give effective support, since it was at the end of its operational tether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grisha Posted February 12, 2002 Share Posted February 12, 2002 One thing to remember(along with western Allied intervention in 1917) is that the Poles tried their hand at taking a bunch of Russian territory during the Russian Civil War. The Communists never forgot that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grisha Posted February 12, 2002 Share Posted February 12, 2002 One thing to remember(along with western Allied intervention in 1917) is that the Poles tried their hand at taking a bunch of Russian territory during the Russian Civil War. The Communists never forgot that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Johnson-- Posted February 12, 2002 Share Posted February 12, 2002 B and C. Poles or Jewish Poles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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