Scenarios and Operations Without Default Setups

[Wally's World]

Forgive me if this has been discussed before but I did a search and did not find anything.

I would just like to know what you guys do if you want to play a user created scenario or operation and there is no indication from the maker whether the initial setup of the units should be set at Default or Free To Place. If there is no setup instructions, what do you usually choose? Because a lot of times the scenario maker has gone to great lengths to set up the units just nicely and you don't want to use the Free To Place setup option. The initial setup of the units can make or break a scenario or operation.

For instance, I'm about to start the operation "Howl of the TimberWolf" but there's no indication of whether the setup should be defaulted or free to place.

What would you choose? :confused:

[ March 13, 2002, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: Wally's World ]

[Fred]

well, most scenario designers simply forget to put it in the setup instructions

I usually load a new scenario with "fixed" setup.

If I see that my forces are randomly distributed on the map, I just guess that the same is true for the enemy.

In this case, I quit the scenario and load it again, this time with "free setup" for the enemy forces.

Fred

[McAuliffe]

In scenarios, I suggest that you choose the default set-up. If the designer has not taken the effort to set-up the units in more or less good defensive positions or advance columns, I guess the scenario isn't even worth playing it.

However, when you play an operation. The designer has no control how the remaining forces or reinforcements will be dispersed over the map in the consecutive battles.

My experience is, that if you choose default set-up in an operation, at the beginning of the next battle, reinforcements will arrive grouped together and will not be dispersed on the set-up turn. i.o.w. They're thrown in a bunch on the map.

It can be a nasty surprise when your lonely piat at the edge of the map is suddenly confronted with 5 or 10 tanks arriving as reinforcement for the enemy.

While, if you choose free set-up, the AI will spread out the units on the first set-up turn in a defensive (or attacking) line.

[Wild Bill Wilder]

Good advice. Lack of warning is almost always a sinn to use default setup.

I've been guilty of this but my thinking was that unless the intro tells you differently, use the default setup in the game.

Wally does have a valid point, however, and sometimes we as designers, enmeshed in what we are doing tend to think that everyone automatically knows. That is not the case. Thanks for the suggestion. I'll try to remember to do just that in the future.

Wild Bill

[SuperTed]

Originally posted by McAuliffe:

In scenarios, I suggest that you choose the default set-up. If the designer has not taken the effort to set-up the units in more or less good defensive positions or advance columns, I guess the scenario isn't even worth playing it.

McAuliffe,

Something that has always frustrated me is poorly placed units when I am attacking. I can understand this being the case if an ambush is being simulated. If that is not the case, then I prefer to place my advancing troops where I think they will be most effective. I suspect any real commander would feel the same.

To that end, I usually design scenarios that allow the attacker to place the units within a set-up zone. So, instead of forcing my set-up preferences on the player, I tend to group the forces. I'll keep the platoons together and have an area for support weapons, vehicles, and the like. I feel this allows the player to see exactly what he has at the outset.

[McAuliffe]

Originally posted by SuperTed:

McAuliffe,

Something that has always frustrated me is poorly placed units when I am attacking. I can understand this being the case if an ambush is being simulated. If that is not the case, then I prefer to place my advancing troops where I think they will be most effective. I suspect any real commander would feel the same.

To that end, I usually design scenarios that allow the attacker to place the units within a set-up zone. So, instead of forcing my set-up preferences on the player, I tend to group the forces. I'll keep the platoons together and have an area for support weapons, vehicles, and the like. I feel this allows the player to see exactly what he has at the outset.[/QB]

Guess, I should have emphasized the "more or less" expression. I agree with Ted, that the player should be able to choose for himself the way how he will set up his advance columns. Of course, just grouping the units in allocated set-up zones should already be sufficient in order to stimulate the AI to execute a coordinated attack and leaves enough options open to the player when he chooses the attacking side.

But in case of an attack scenario, isn't it the task of the designer to create a scenario, where the player is confronted with situations he won't find in a quick fired up QB. Shouldn't he "create" a scenario ?

When you leave defensive forces on the map just grouped per platoon- or Cie. leader, I guess the attacking player will have not much of a "match" when choosing default setup.

[Fred]

As there are a lot of people who play the AI, every designer should state the setup options, like:

"If playing as Axis vs. the AI; Allied AI should use the default setup.

If playing as Allied vs. the AI; Axis AI should use 'free-setup'."

It's frustrating if you attack the AI, only to see in mid-game, that the default setup of the AI was random.

Fred

[SuperTed]

Originally posted by McAuliffe:

But in case of an attack scenario, isn't it the task of the designer to create a scenario, where the player is confronted with situations he won't find in a quick fired up QB. Shouldn't he "create" a scenario ?

When you leave defensive forces on the map just grouped per platoon- or Cie. leader, I guess the attacking player will have not much of a "match" when choosing default setup.

McAuliffe,

If you re-read my post, you'll see I only group attacking forces. For the defensive side, I always place them for fear of exactly what you mention.

Also, I always have a note in the overall briefing that refers to "Best Played As" to help the player. I guess that is the crux of this thread.