Mass Fires with Onboard Mortars

[Ksak]

The image shows a comparison of the point effect of 4 x 81mm mortars firing in a diamond pattern separated by 20m versus an 81mm FO. A HQ unit provided the LOS to the target. Although HQ spotting is not required it will provide more flexibility in emplacing the mortars in the correct formation.

Although the FO has two times the load out the onboard mortar platoon is more effective in placing mass fires on a point target. Different impact patterns can be obtained by changing the formation of the mortar platoon - e.g. in a line to target a woodline.

For the Americans the cost difference is not high (+5). For the Germans the differential is more substantial (+37).

Other advantages to expermenting with using mortar platoons instead of FOs are that fire is immediate and the mortar platoon is less vulnerable to catastrophic loss.

The downside is that the mortar platoon will give you only two HE fire missions and one smoke mission before running out. An FO will fire for four turns. It's also easier to move 1 FO around the map than four mortars.

[jasoncawley@ameritech.net]

Very nice picture.

For the Germans, you can just use 3x81mm to address the price. That will keep the cost in the same ballpark at the off-board module, and it gives half the number of rounds as the off-board module. The pattern is pretty dense already, so dropping e.g. the front-center one from your "diamond", will not reduce the effect much. You will still have more rounds per bit of area in the beaten zone. Even the standard 2x81mm per company fire a decent 2-minute mission, though they will tend to "x" across the target instead of making a nice blob.

[Pak40]

Good job. It's nice to see somebody's doing some more artillery research.

It would be nice to see how much an 81mm FO differs without a LOS to the target. I think someone said that the barrage area will be a little larger if the FO does not have a LOS to the target.

[Olle Petersson]

Originally posted by Ksak:

Different impact patterns can be obtained by changing the formation of the mortar platoon ...

Isn't it the formation of the target points for each individual mortar that matters more than the relative position of them, as long as they're fairly close together?

To target a treeline just set the target points in a line...

Cheers

Olle

[Ksak]

The dense impact pattern was obtained by using a group target order. All the mortars in the platoon targeted a single point. I'm guessing because I have not tried it, but I suspect that if 4 x 81 were targeted individually from widely different vectors that the impact pattern would not be as dense.

The onboard barrage did not have any outliers making it more useful for supporting a close assault. You can get your assaulting troops much closer to the objective without risking friendly fire.

[Olle Petersson]

Originally posted by Ksak:

I suspect that if 4 x 81 were targeted individually from widely different vectors that the impact pattern would not be as dense.

"Widely different vectors" is something that can't be obtained as long as the mortars are fairly close together. (Assuming a typical range to target of at least 500m.)

Even with the mortars well spread the concentration would remain at the target point, but cover a larger surrounding area.

Your tight pattern would remain even if the mortars were positioned on a straight line, 10m apart, no matter in what direction that line was oriented.

What puzzles me most in your screenshot is the shapes of the beaten areas.

- For your on map mortars it's almost circular, whereas the typical pattern for individual mortars is a line along the LOF.

- For the off map mortars I have the opposite experience; circular is standard, you have elliptic.

BTW, what was the range for the on map mortars? My guess is that they get more spread further down range.

Cheers

Olle

[Peter White]

Getting mortars into place on the offense is quite a chore. A FO can run along with the infantry. Better, because a Weary FO still can do his thing.

I am playing All Or Nothing, (possible minor spoilers...)

...and getting those 3" mortars into position takes a long time. At least the ones that walk.

The Allies get a lot of different artillery to play with.

Other observations:

(1) 3" mortars on board mortars are accurate enough to pop light armored vehicles with 4-5 shots at 500m.

(2) 3" off board mortars are only accurate enough to find a full platoon.

(3a) The naval guns are AMAZINGLY accurate. It seems like the spotting round with land within 30-40m almost every time.

(3b) Due to the timing of the spot round, and the relatively slow ROF, it is easy to control the pace of fire and not waste lots of rounds.

(3c) 5.5" is a big blast and just a few rounds take out a soft target. Not many more to knock the track off a tank. (~9 rounds, 2 within 20m)

(3d) Too bad you can't take fight within arms reach of your navy all the time!

[Olle Petersson]

Double posting...

[This message has been edited by Olle Petersson (edited 03-13-2001).]

[Olle Petersson]

I just did my own test.

German 81mm mortars, 40 HE rounds per barrel.

- All mortars and the FO were within C&C of an HQ with no extra bonuses.

- All mortars had LOS to the target.

- All mortars within each battery targeted the same spot, the centre of a road crossing.

Some self explanatory screenshots:

Conclusions:

- Off map mortars have unlimited range.

- The Sheaf of off map mortars doesn't change with range.

- On map mortars get larger spread with longer range.

Cheers

Olle

[jasoncawley@ameritech.net]

Beautiful, makes perfect sense. The tight sheaf is a simple result of short firing range. So the moral is that range has more of an impact on the fire effectiveness of on-map mortars than one might have thought. A useful thing to know. Of course, with the 100m minimum and a possibly moving target group, you don't want to be exactly 100 meters away. But 150-250 meters will get more hits than clear across the map, which makes sense.

[Olle Petersson]

Additional test:

This time I set up Conscript vs Elite on map 81mm.

Each mortar had 40 shells, LOS to target 1260m away.

The Elite mortars used up all their ammo just before the end of turn 3, while the Conscripts had one or two shells left after turn 4.

The Elite mortars put all shells in a narrow (ca 10m) path, at a distance from 1187m to 1364m.

The Conscript mortars put their shells in a wider (ca 40m) pattern, at a distance from 976m to 1678m. (In depth they're as accurate as rocket arty...) The main density was within the range span of the entire pattern from the Elite mortars.

Cheers

Olle

[Ksak]

So what is the potential value of this information?

My original intention was to find a way to provide more precise indirect fire support to a platoon in the assault. Offboard 81mm does not provide the pinpoint accuracy often needed. One fire mission with smoke provides concealment to move the platoon as close as 40m to the enemy position. One fire mission to suppress or destroy and one fire mission in reserve for the counterattack.

Is that capability worth 100 points and 20 turns skulking around the map to get in position?

[Olle Petersson]

Originally posted by Ksak:

So what is the potential value of this information?

My original intention was to find a way to provide more precise indirect fire support to a platoon in the assault.

The value of my tests is obvious:

- With high quality on map mortars you will get pin-point accuracy, especially at closer ranges (<500m).

- Don't use them in an attempt to cover an area with HE or smoke, but against individual enemy units.

- On map mortars have ammo to last for three to four turns of area fire, or more, if they target enemy units within LOS directly.

My next test will be to see the difference between self observed fire and using a HQ as spotter...

Cheers

Olle

[Pvt.Tom]

Great posts everyone, very interesting.

Thanks

Pvt.Tom