Kirill S. Posted November 3, 2002 Share Posted November 3, 2002 Well, I'm playing an operation and I got my IS-2 overlooking the field. A panther shows up and kaboom, it's knocked out. After a second the german arty puts up a smokescreen right around my precious IS-2 and a tiger slips by and annihilates my halftracks. So the question is: Is it really realistic to pre-plan a smokescreen? Is there historical evidence or record of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joques Posted November 3, 2002 Share Posted November 3, 2002 Every time the AI does someting smart, it's a bug? :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirill S. Posted November 3, 2002 Author Share Posted November 3, 2002 no, the question was if smoke-screens were pre-planned during ww2? if weren't, then it's a bug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtweasle Posted November 3, 2002 Share Posted November 3, 2002 How do you know it was pre-planned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bone_Vulture Posted November 3, 2002 Share Posted November 3, 2002 If the AI can win a ME over me without at least a +30% point handicap, it's gotta be a bug... :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew H. Posted November 3, 2002 Share Posted November 3, 2002 I don't know about on the East Front, but on the West Front, preplanned smokescreens were *extremely* common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtweasle Posted November 3, 2002 Share Posted November 3, 2002 My reading also indicates Fire Missions could indeed have smoke and HE mixed, separate, all sorts of combinations really. But I still want to know how you can tell the computer used a planned fire-mission? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiggDogg Posted November 3, 2002 Share Posted November 3, 2002 Kirill, With no insult intended, here are some comments. Also, there are opinions and other people may refute these comments and I am willing to listen and learn. Smokescreens are to screen the view of the enemy to one's guys. Certainly, the Russians with their less responsive arty abilities would use preplanned arty strikes, smoke & HE. Is there historical evidence? I am sure that there is, but I can't provide the citations of the proper primary & secondary sources to you. To a certain extent, I and others depend upon BTS's historical research to provide a secondary source of information and a nicely done application of the historical sources to a wonderful game, CMBB. More particularly, IS-2 don't like Cats (Tigers or Panthers). Generally, most things being equal, and one on one, the IS-2s will lose to cats because the Cats have a higher rate of fire. Even IS-2 uber tanks have to use proper anti tank tactics. :eek: If the AI uses smoke, learn to live with it, adapt, learn, and find proper remedies. Learn from the AI, learn carefully, and apply remedies. If the AI frequently beats you, you really have to figure out remedies because playing agaist humans is much more difficult than against the AI. Humans are way, way more skillful than the AI. Go to the listings of "Useful Posts" and apply those lessons. Cheers, Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirill S. Posted November 3, 2002 Author Share Posted November 3, 2002 it was pre-planned because it started firing right away a 120mm mortar rounds on the first turn of the battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtweasle Posted November 3, 2002 Share Posted November 3, 2002 Originally posted by Kirill S.: it was pre-planned because it started firing right away a 120mm mortar rounds on the first turn of the battle.So the computer changed 120mm Mortar in a pre-planned fire mission to smoke at some point? Or did it start immediatly with the smoke? I'd have to say this is very odd, in any event. I've yet to see the computer player use smoke in an opening barrage. Don't know about bugs, but sure is odd. The AI will use smoke to mask powerful groups of units sometimes. So if your tank ws in the opne at the beginning I guess it might go ahead and smoke it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engel Posted November 3, 2002 Share Posted November 3, 2002 Originally posted by Dirtweasle: I've yet to see the computer player use smoke in an opening barrage.Saw it today in a QB, where the AI opened up with an extremely dense smokescreen, covering about 300x300 area right around my start point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tecumseh Posted November 3, 2002 Share Posted November 3, 2002 Human players set their pre-planned arty strikes in the orders-phase of the first turn - rather than in the setup. If the AI does the same, it may have seen your IS-2 and set up the smoke barrage in front of it during turn 1 orders. Humans are able to do this to each other too. Any unit visable to the opponent on turn 1 can be hit by a "pre-planned" barrage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullethead Posted November 3, 2002 Share Posted November 3, 2002 Originally posted by Kirill S.: it was pre-planned because it started firing right away a 120mm mortar rounds on the first turn of the battle.Bingo! If as you implied in your 1st post, your tank was on a hilltop with an LOS over the battlefield, then it would have been visible to the AI at the start of turn 1's orders phase. So the AI sees your tank, orders an FO to put smoke on it, and because this is turn 1, it happens immediately as a barrage. No bug, no cheating. I suggest in the future that you NOT set up your units where they can be spotted immediately. This goes for grunts as well as tanks. If your opponent can see your stuff during the Turn 1 orders phase, you can bet a barrage will hit it. This is a big problem with barrages. I really wanted them to fire during the set-up phase, before anything could be visible to the other side. Oh well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirill S. Posted November 4, 2002 Author Share Posted November 4, 2002 This is a big problem with barrages. I really wanted them to fire during the set-up phase, before anything could be visible to the other side. Oh well that's what I thought too. But now we can smoke the AI too, and it won't complain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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