Lumbergh Posted December 5, 2002 Share Posted December 5, 2002 I also had a whole bunch of my family wiped out in Poland in WWII. I think you should release the scenario. I'm pretty proud of the ghetto uprising. Incredible valor in the face of impossible odds. I would hope that if I were in their shoes I would have had the courage to do what they did. Just wanted to provide another counterpoint to armchair. I understand why he would find the idea offensive, but I don't think he should! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted December 6, 2002 Author Share Posted December 6, 2002 Maxx and Panzerleader, By now i assume you have looked at the scenario. Do you find anything insulting in it? Thanks for all the comments guys. I will admit I am leaning more to releasing it now...since it has already taught people who's opinions i respect that there was more then one uprising. I was surprised by the amount of people who never even heard or assumed it was all one uprising. Will decide after I hear from PL and Maxx. Rune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Leader Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Rune, Just got home and completed the set-up as the Germans. Very good briefing, informative, and I like the list of resources too. One suggestion I might make would be to add a list of German casualties to the end, since you have the Polish casualties. The map looks good too. Too bad we don't have a "Ten Foot Wall" tile, but it works. It has a very claustrophobic affect. I also like the way you mixed in factories with the buildings for varying LOS. Without giving too mauch away to me honorable opponent, I think the force structure seems realistic and I'm sure it's based on history. From a playability stand-point, it looks good, a tough nut to crack. Those tall buildings and wide streets make me nervous. Interesting unit placement. I made a couple of very minor adjustments, but basically left it as is. All in all, I wish there were more scenarios out there - ones that can be a challenge and fun to play, but at the same time can both invoke a sense of what WW2 was really like through historical scenarios, and especially ones like this that uncover often neglected subjects. As far as the Uprising goes, other than a few oblique references in history books, the only thing I know abbout it is from a mini-series on TV last year. While I can't speak for the truth of the mini-series, I thought it was wonderful to show something like this. Same with this battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxx Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Played as partisans vs. the AI and spanked him, so perhaps tweaking might be necessary. I sent you some info Rune. I'm afraid vs. a human (Panzer Leader) it's gonna be tough going. I have all conscripts (partisans) and I believe he has mostly regulars. Plus he has big (BIG!) assault vehicles. Gonna give it my best shot though If only MasterGoodale were here for guidance, I would feel more confident. :mad: :mad: :mad: [ December 05, 2002, 06:52 PM: Message edited by: Maxx ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwxspoon Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 I would say, to Armchair, kudos to you for expressing your opinion here in such an eloquent manner. To Rune I would say, release the scenario and let the players decide. Personally, I will not play it, but I don't wish to remove the opportunity for others to play it and, in their own way, celebrate the bravery of the Poles who undertook to defend themselves and their families against hopeless odds. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Vyrdolak Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Originally posted by Armdchair: Rune, I don't know you but I know you're one of the top designers and well-respected within the CM community so this is not a reflection on you as a person but yes, I think a “Warsaw Ghetto Uprising” scenario is in bad taste. Some people might argue all wargames are, etc but what I find truly disturbing about this particular scenario is the idea of people playing as SS troopers liquidating the Warsaw Ghetto.Two of the original ASL scenarios that came with Partisans! Valor were based on the Warsaw uprising They were called "The Old Town" (Scenario 31) and "Mila 18" (the address of the house where the first Germans were shot. I lost Mila 18 in the last turn, it came down to a close combat between a partisan squad and an SS half-squad. I'm Jewish and I don't have a problem with this scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egbert Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Rune, Your thoughtfulness in this is very good. I have a reason to show interest in the topic and find the issue would not be misunderstood with a few tasteful notes in the briefing. Any event can be twisted and/or taken the wrong way. Simply assuming the role of the Nazis or Soviets in "playing" a side in the battle could be enough to send some people into fits. The military gaming community is not one to be easily offended. I'll volunteer to be one of your testers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted December 6, 2002 Author Share Posted December 6, 2002 Egbert, Will send to you to test once I get home from work. Thanks to all for your opinions. I am definitely leaning towards releasing it...as the amount of people it taught already has been impressive. I have gotten quite a few emails saying they never knew about this uprising, being over shadowed by the late 1944 one. All, I will change the main briefing a little more, and wait for replys from the testers if it honors the fight or not. Beating the AI doesn't make the balance off, as the AI does not perform a good attack. Against a live player, things will be different. If anyone know Polish, please contact me, as I would like to put a small paragraph that mentions the scenario was made to honor the fighters there. I thank everyone for their opinions. I did not include it on the CD because of this. However, available as a download, so that people can pass on it seems to be a better way to do this. Obviously, if you find it offensive, do not download, but if you have never heard about this fight, their bravery should shine through, and hopefully never forget what happened there, so that it may not ever happen again. The two web links listed in the briefing I had posted gives more information if you are interested in learning about this. I hope the few that don't want it released understand why I am releasing it...I think more good can come out of it by people learning what happened there then harm come from it. At least, that is my intent. Rune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xerxes Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Sounds like you've done and excellent and tasteful job with the scenario. Having a Polish paragraph would be a very nice touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts