armoured perambulators trouble

[ozzie]

For a such a short scenario I'm sure having a hard time with this one. I've tried advancing the infantry through the buildings on each side of the road, with the light tanks coming a bit behind. On one try I was able to luckily take out the gun to my right with my mortar, but by the time the rest of the infantry got to the buildings lining the plaza they were attritted so badly they were unable to take out the last gun and just got slowly picked off. I never was able to put my tanks to very good use. They couldn't even take out the infantry straight down the road behind the wall. Anyone know better tactics in this type of scenario?

[ December 26, 2005, 05:18 PM: Message edited by: sosborn ]

[JasonC]

Ah, a typical Berli fight. Small numbers of high quality infantry, and some absurd weapon you must make the most of.

I won easily in 12 minutes, the last 2 FJ surrendering to me at that point. I lost 10 men myself, none of the tanks.

I sent the entire infantry platoon through the buildings left of the main street, one building farther in (not adjacent to it), one minute behind a "point" half squad of 4 riflemen. The tanks initially just waited.

The half squad drew fire while on a "move to contact" order into the last buildings shy of the square, pinned, but the fire ceased when he went heads down, allowing him to recover the following minute. The rest of the platoon deployed behind him, his Bren half squad joining him, one squad going to a building on his left, another to the last heavy one on his right, a corner with a view to the wall across the square. The HQ remained in the second building back, sighting along an alley. The mortar was behind the second building back, to fire by HQ spot.

At this point, the tanks are sitting, except the first which I send through the maze of alleys left of the route I advanced, avoiding the main road. Some dicey navigating that the tac AI can mess up, but he gets to an alley left of the last row of buildings and pulls into it. Not all the way out, I don't want him to see the wall area yet. A second tank gets a move order to the same area the following minute, and the HQ tank follows a minute later. Nobody used the main road.

My initial problem was resolving the firing FJ units from sound contacts into full spots. That was made difficult by the spotters being pinned, and not all the way to the front windows of their own buildings.

I rapidly spotted one of the PAK at the left end of the wall. Rifle fire was enough to pin it, but that is where wall tactics kick in. A unit heads down behind a wall is 0% exposure - invulnerable to infantry type fire. And too far from grenades. So every time they pop up, a squad shot and sent them down again, but they always rally in the safety of the wall.

I shifted the HQ to get LOS of the spotted PAK, then put the 2 inch on it. It fired all its HE in one minute but took out that gun.

Meanwhile my infantry was not having a pleasant time, despite being spread one to a building, all in cover, and only trying to rally or fire back. They picked on one location on my left at 35m, which turned into a grenade toss competition, but I wasn't winning it because the forward squad there was pinned too often. At one point it panicked, and it lost a few men. Dicey.

In the middle, a squad was drawing fire and could not see, and remained pinned. Its friend on the right in the heavy building farther back did not draw fire, but also did not have a target. I advanced him into the front light building at the corner.

At the same time, I sent one tank around the left to close range to the FJ unit there. I thought is was an HMG - still dangerous to so thin a tank - but in fact it was a squad, thus close assault dangerous. The move was delayed by a tac AI detour around some rubble, but once the route was fixed it made it rapidly enough. (In the meantime I tried to smoke them with the 2 inch, but basically missed). Fired at that squad from about 15m, pinning it before it got off a close assault.

At the same time the other two tanks were reaching the other alleys from my occupied line of buildings. One pulled out the alley on the left, a little too far, the other was still navigating the narrow streets.

The combo of two tanks now in view of the square and the move forward by my last, rightmost squad revealed additional defenders. I saw a squad at the wall, the second PAK at the right end.

The immediate danger was the PAK, at the moment turning. Also, the first tank into view of it semi-panicked (tac AI route change) and bolted into the square and to my right.

The 2 inch tried to smoke it but I did not expect much from that. I ran with the panic and gave the front tank a waypoint all the way over on my right, in a crook of building that blocked LOS to the PAK at the right end of the wall, but allowed it toward the squad in the center. It would run straight there and let the turret do the aiming. I also hoped this would set the PAK turning to its left, my right, away from the other tanks.

Then the next tank just coming out of the alley got a waypoint on the left wall, at right angles to the one the enemy was fighting from. That gave it LOS to the defenders without crossing their near wall. Then it was to proceed straight over the wall, and at the PAK from its left-rear.

The last tank was to finish navigating its alley, and then head straight at the PAK, fast speed, and smash right over it if possible. The PAK would thus face targets in a 180 degree arc, with the one currently targeting exiting LOS, and the other two set to kill it if not killed first themselves.

In the event, the PAK tracked the distractor only briefly, switching to the leftmost, "back" tank. It was however pinned by fire regularly. Once the back tank got to its side wall, its fire was no longer wall cover. It took longer than I liked crawling over the wall, but its fire was keeping the PAK pinned. It was targeted again as it broke beyond that, but ran the PAK down.

The third tank was hung up on the wall at about 15m from the PAK by this time. Infantry at the wall tried to target them for close assault, but between movement and pinning fire from every direction, did not get off the attacks. (The left squad threw one close assault grenade at the leftmost tank as it left the area, but missed).

I also got a full spot of the rightmost FJ squad at this time. It was 25m from one of the tanks and targeting it.

Next turn, the PAK history by overrun, I backed the tanks to locations more than 30m from infantry. The rightmost tank crossed the square to the left, to 40m from the left squad, targeting it. The tank that overran the back reversed 10m to open the range from the squad targeting it, and fired to pin said squad. The one hung on the wall cross it and headed left, targeting the now crawling squad in the middle. It was in close assault range, but no cover now that I was behind the wall, so I wasn't worried. Squads being shot in the open have no close assault potential.

Meanwhile, my infantry rallied as fire shifted to the tanks. They moved to front windows and fired at everybody.

The last German (HQ I think) came out of the objective building around this time, heading for one of the tanks across the cemetary, presumably trying to get close enough to close assault. Dumb move, he was easily cut down. The remainder of the FJ squad on my left died in its rubble, to 40m tank fire and a squad. The one on the right also had a tank hitting it at 35m. Its last 2 men surrendered.

The infantry can't carry the weight alone, tanks have to do some of it. The mortar can take out one of the PAK, and if the smoke works well might blind the other one. You can beat the infantry by tank MG fire if and only if you pin the ones close enough for a close assault, before they get it off. You can't waste fire on the guys behind the wall, beyond keeping their heads down. Instead, get a tank to a spot that sights along the wall rather than over it, or better still clear over the wall.

The reliable way to kill the second PAK (or both if the 2 inch only pins one, instead of KOing) is to physically overrun it. The wall causes tens of seconds of delay in doing this, which makes it non-trivial. But you still can, if the PAK is otherwise suppressed.

I hope this helps.

[MikeyD]

I've failed several times at that scenario (played at long intervals so I'd forget the setup). My one success was when I did an end run waaaaaay to the left, completely bypassed as much of the enemy as I could, then made a mad dash for the church with half my men, the others doing covering fire from the upper floors of the street buildings. The flag changed and I sat my men at the back of the building, mowing down any German units that scampered in to retake it. Just about ran myself out of ammo in the process. If the AI had tried one more push I would've been a gonner.

[slysniper]

Against the AI defender, you should be able to win if you have skill in playing this game. Jason tactics are good and show a proper advance. I have also tried the tank through the alleys and had no problem coming out at the corner of the court yard. You might as well run the tanks up the road, found it works just as well.

This is a good one to master as the British, once you start winning it without trying to avoid the AI you are using your troops well.

I start by having infantry in the bldg that looks down the road to the plaza, then roll the tanks partway up the street on the sides to use the bldgs as flanking protection. If anything is straight ahead the combination of arms will normally pin it quickly. If needed the mortar can move to view from the alley next to the bldg the overwatch infantry is in.

Next I move my infantry just as jason does to the bldgs left of the road I am advancing on. I do send one or two half squads right, more for securing my flank from any units trying to sneak up on my armour or to get flanking position on the plaza. Not a problem from the AI, but a human, it is a must.

My goal is to smoke out the gun locations, normally once your infantry hits the bldgs adjacent to the plaza, they will take some heat.

I focus on the guns when they open up, then move the motar in position from between whichever bldg is needed, then rush the tanks. Normally the guns are struggling with being pinned, if the motar does not get it the tanks will. What little effect the infantry has is minor, normally I can take one tank and one squad and prevent any infantry that is close from doing much.

I will not claim such perfect low losses as Jason. If I remember well from the few plays I have done, Normally lost one tank to either the AT or infantry close assault or weapons. Also normally lost a few squads of men. Say half getting into position on the plaza, normally a few more taking the bldg if against anything other than the stupid AI.

Good luck, Its a fun little Battle to enjoy.

[ December 30, 2005, 06:07 AM: Message edited by: slysniper ]

[MikeyD]

Of course it "doesn't count" going at it multiple times against the same setup til you get it right. CM's not supposed to be one of those scripted shooter games where you're required to repeat and repeat until you find the key to advance. Its a good player who beats that simple little scenario in the first go through sound tactics. By that measure, i guess I'm not a particularly good player

Repeating a battle does have its place, though, for training. You can say to yourself "Oh, so THAT's why strategy A didn't work! This time let's see how strategy B does."

[JasonC]

Well my AAR was first time through, first thing I tried, not knowing the German force or where they would be. Though of course the briefing says they have 2 PAK so I knew that much.

If I were to do it over with perfect knowledge of the set up, I could use a simpler method initially and more razzle dazzle for the hardest bit. As follows.

First put the platoon in the heavy buildings just left of the main road, by hooking through the buildings one layer in as I did, but coming out right instead of straight ahead, initially. That isolates on the PAK at the right end of the wall. Pin it with infantry fire then hit it with the 2 inch.

After the right PAK is KOed, bring 2 tanks, the trailing one the HQ, up the right side of the main road. The left PAK won't get LOS to them until they get very close to the square. They can pin the infantry along the wall. Meanwhile send the 3rd tank on a long left hook through the alleys on the left, same way I did but with only one tank. Go well past the whole German position before turning right, and nosing out any alley looking on the square from the far left end of the map.

As soon as the right PAK goes and the tanks pin the infantry along the wall, advance the platoon into the last row of light buildings overlooking the square. They will find the remaining PAK and should be able to pin it. Compared to what I did, it will be much easier to get fire dominance over the square, as you will have a tank hitting the squad at the wall and one of the PAK will already be gone.

Now toss smoke at the second PAK from the 2 inch, infantry keeping it pinned as well, and rush one tank from the front (main street) to the right side of the square, sighting along the front wall to remove it as cover and then crossing it there. The rear tank meanwhile runs through the gap in the wall by the objective building, and straight onto the PAK from its absolute rear - with no delay for any intervening wall climbing.

That should kill the second PAK. Bring out the remaining tank (which is insurance if the front one gets hit during its dash) and mop up the remaining defenders by putting a tank on each at ~50m. The infantry can flank around the left if there is any remaining need for cover, otherwise they just rush anybody that goes heads-down to finish them off.

You wouldn't do that sort of thing not knowing the defense, because the lone tank on the long left is vulnerable to close assault along its route, and because you would not know the exact location of the PAK (though there aren't that many sensible places for them).

It was easy enough not knowing the defense, though. I just figured the AT defense would be focused on the main road so I avoided it, and that I'd need the tanks for anti-infantry firepower before the end, regardless. The charge method of killing the second PAK was obvious enough once it was doable in 2 minutes. One PAK can't face three directions, and they turn slowly. Simple enough.

[slysniper]

I also won with my first blind play, but I do like to go back and try different tactics, excuse me if I believe that is a good way to develope my skills.